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Anyone working "inside" and tried asking for employee stuff yet?

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    Anyone working "inside" and tried asking for employee stuff yet?

    Annual leave, flexi leave, sick pay, pension, share schemes, etc?
    If so, how did it go?
    Formerly Sausage Surprise but forgot password on account that had email address from old gig

    #2
    Why on earth would you do that when you are not employed by them and are not entitled to it? Surely the outcome would be that you look like a bit of a pillock that doesn't have a clue what you are doing shortly followed by an escort to the door?

    If you really do want to do that you'd need to go to an Employment Tribunal but that is not advised.
    Last edited by Contractor UK; 3 June 2021, 12:17.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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      #3
      Originally posted by Wobblyheed View Post
      Annual leave, flexi leave, sick pay, pension, share schemes, etc?
      If so, how did it go?
      How would you do that when your employer is the umbrella firm you are working through.

      The actual term is pay parity and that only occurs 12 weeks after you start work (so most people won't be there) and most of us here will be being paid more than the permanent staff so it won't matter.
      merely at clientco for the entertainment

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        #4
        I get why you'd want to try it on.

        The client has determined that the role they want you to do is very much of an employee type position so therefore why don't they go the whole hog and treat you like a proper employee? It's the sort of thing I'd raise at interview for a laugh.

        "Oh so this is an inside IR35 role because you have assessed that the working relationship is one of employment. Would you tell me why you're not offering a proper contract of employment with all the rights I would then be entitled to?"



        It's almost tempting to apply for some inside roles

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          #5
          Originally posted by Wobblyheed View Post
          Annual leave, flexi leave, sick pay, pension, share schemes, etc?
          If so, how did it go?
          Shall I say it again.

          You are treated as an employee for TAX PURPOSES ONLY.


          Go ahead and ask the umbrella for lots of stuff. I am sure the £20 a week they make will cover it.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by ladymuck View Post
            I get why you'd want to try it on.

            The client has determined that the role they want you to do is very much of an employee type position so therefore why don't they go the whole hog and treat you like a proper employee? It's the sort of thing I'd raise at interview for a laugh.

            "Oh so this is an inside IR35 role because you have assessed that the working relationship is one of employment. Would you tell me why you're not offering a proper contract of employment with all the rights I would then be entitled to?"



            It's almost tempting to apply for some inside roles
            I completely agree. If only to witness first hand their complete surprise and confusion.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by ladymuck View Post
              I get why you'd want to try it on.

              The client has determined that the role they want you to do is very much of an employee type position so therefore why don't they go the whole hog and treat you like a proper employee? It's the sort of thing I'd raise at interview for a laugh.

              "Oh so this is an inside IR35 role because you have assessed that the working relationship is one of employment. Would you tell me why you're not offering a proper contract of employment with all the rights I would then be entitled to?"



              It's almost tempting to apply for some inside roles
              I believe being inside does not equate to an employee type position. I think that's a very broad statement that, in the majority of cases, is simply not true. People will pick up on that, just like the OP has, and because they can't see the wood for the trees they've gone straight down the wanting employee perks. This type of thinking is unhelpful at best.

              In some cases the client has gotten it totally wrong and is using an inside person to blatantly fill a perm position and there is a case but I expect this won't be common at all. It certainly won't be the case for the OP. They've just not understood what they are.

              EDIT : That said, I do believe this will grow in to a problem in years to come. When we get inside people doing 5+ years on site at clients that haven't bothered managing this properly there are going to be many valid cases I'd imagine. Just like we talk about long outside gigs starting to be a strong indicator of outside to inside (not debating this now but there is case law for it) then the same will happen to a contractor being inside now starts to look like an employee. Time will tell.
              Last edited by northernladuk; 3 June 2021, 11:00.
              'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

                Just because it is inside does not equate to an employee type position. I think that's a very broad statement that, in the majority of cases, is simply not true. People will pick up on that, just like the OP has, and because they can't see the wood for the trees they've gone straight down the wanting employee perks. This type of thinking is unhelpful at best.

                In some cases the client has gotten it totally wrong and is using an inside person to blatantly fill a perm position and there is a case but I expect this won't be common at all. It certainly won't be the case for the OP. They've just not understood what they are.
                Oh I know but I would ask to see what the client actually understood. There is much conflation between employment for tax purposes and employment for rights purposes.

                The trouble is, HMRC don't help much in their guidance:

                What you need to do as a client

                You’ll need to decide the employment status of every worker who operates through their own intermediary, even if they are provided through an agency.
                https://www.gov.uk/guidance/april-20...ng-for-clients

                At first glance, that doesn't read like you're deciding a tax status.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Perhaps look up Susan Winchester? No, that reads wrongly...

                  Perhaps look up the recent Susan Winchester case.
                  Blog? What blog...?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by malvolio View Post
                    Perhaps look up Susan Winchester? No, that reads wrongly...

                    Perhaps look up the recent Susan Winchester case.
                    What case? HMRC folded prior to the employment tribunal kicking off.

                    And reading it she seems to have recovered holiday pay and not employer NI - which again leaves more questions than answers.
                    merely at clientco for the entertainment

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