Renew or leg it

[northernladuk]

I've already had the convo with the boss that I think its too risky to stay. I can't live with the stress of worrying about investigations through no fault of my own.

You consider yourself outside but you've got a boss?? Computer says no.

Also insurances - I don't need insurance if I go umbrella as they will provide it at whichever client I go to....so does insurance for investigations cover you for only the 12months it was active or can you go back and use a policy you paid for if required in future because that was covering the period that any investigation looks at?
I understand this kind of insurance is a bit like a wet paper bag....so just checking.

It should cover you for any investigations kicked off while you hold it. You say the last year though? You've only had it a year so bought midway though? Not sure how that is going to work. Seems a bit unfair to hold insurance for a year but expect them to pony up for multiple years before that.

I don't think the insurance is a wet paper bag. Seb has popped on here a few times with stats about the number of people they've successfully defended. The insurance will help head it off at the pass so never goes far enough to hit the news. Never seeing a case doesn't mean the insurance has never been needed.

I'm finding this rather stressful and will make myself jobless than risk a look by HMRC for going outside to inside.

You won't be jobless, your job is running a PSC. You just won't have any income. You say you are outside but you don't seem to be thinking like an outside contractor.

I don't want to as I enjoy where I work and work I've done there, but this is a huge risk in my mind (and sadly I know this might not keep that risk away although maybe minimise it). However there seems to be noone to give advice on this!!

There isn't any definitive advice. We've never been here before. Will HMRC hoover up the absolute sitters that are outside to inside? With covid and the blackhole left in the budget they'd be stupid not to IMO but who knows.

Others at work are saying HMRC are too busy looking at bigger fraud but I don't think that will stop them. Most seem to be staying but looking immediately for alternative work to minimise risk. Surely its more sensible to renew and look to keep the funds coming in?! We all have bills to pay.
Mucho gracias

They thought IR35 was big enough to spend 4 years implementing these changes so throwing a couple of drones at it to go collect monies due from outside to inside isn't going to be a problem. I mean, it would be worthwhile getting some contractors in to do it as it won't be difficult. Sitting there mistakenly taking the word of other clueless people about what HMRC is and isn't going to do isn't really the best thing to do in this climate. Didn't someone post awhile ago HMRC are having a massive recruitment drive for investigators?

Is it possible to renew and keep funds coming in? Yeah if you don't want to give a toss about the situation and stick your head in the sand. If you've got half an idea the are going to come and shaft you for 100's of thousands of pounds you haven't got then it would be a pretty stupid thing to do.
Quick answer in my opinion is no. Renew and keep looking is utterly pointless and putting you in the post with all the other low hanging fruit. The minute you walk in your clients door inside you are flagged.

You should have a warchest for times you are out of work. That pays the bills while you find another gig just like it has for everyone else for as long as contracting has been around. Leaving a gig and potentially being out of work a month or two is a normal risk for us. It shouldn't be that scary you are willing to face an HMRC investigation.

There will be plenty of inside gigs coming up as everyone like you should be leaving, or expenses make it untenable, I personally think staying is pretty stupid idea. The roles will be out there, so it's not like you'll get nothing for years. You've built a war chest up for a rainy day. Use it for a week or two while you find another gig and then get on risk free.

[Bonerp]

Have they said you are inside IR35 or have they stated that they won't allow the use of PSCs going forward?

If the former have they done role or individual assessments or not done any at all?

They are saying no PSC and everyone under umbrella. No individual assessments have been done!

[Bonerp]

I would tell them I am off. In fact I did exactly this the first time this was supposed to happen and clientco were mucking about not making a proper decision.
By the time they had announced their PSC ban, I had already left - although I tended to be at any client for less than a year as I do implementations.

What isn't clear from your post is exactly what your client has said - it looks like a PSC ban - is that what it is?

yes PSC ban - apologies.
I'm minded the same. They even asked could I take time off and come back but how long would I need to be away for??! So much unclear.

[eek]

yes PSC ban - apologies.
I'm minded the same. They even asked could I take time off and come back but how long would I need to be away for??! So much unclear.

Well given that agency reporting is quarterly and based on payment date I suspect you would need to disappear for 6 months

[Bonerp]

Thanks for replies appreciate your input. And I think I'm on the same path as you folks.

[northernladuk]

yes PSC ban - apologies.
I'm minded the same. They even asked could I take time off and come back but how long would I need to be away for??! So much unclear.

You can't really afford to be so precious about a gig. It's a temp thing and one of many clients in a long contracting career. It's over so you move on. Obviously keep it on good terms in case they want you but there is absolutely no need to be risking an investigation and being desperate to hang on on to it you land yourself in a world of trouble. Do the work, move on. It's what we do.

[David S]

Re the Insurance query, it's not as straightforwards as what's mooted.

I'm due to retire soon and close my company, but the risk of an investigation still hangs over me, even if the company is closed.

So I picked this up with Qdos, with whom I have the insurance and they made clear that their insurance covers you not for the period that you did the work, but for a finite period for the 12 months after you have taken out the insurance, and you keep having to renew for as long as the risk is there.

Put into something a bit easier to grasp - I am contracting through my own limited company up until March 31, then switch to am umbrella company. I currently have insurance that expires on Sep 30, after which, unless I renew that insurance, I have no cover for any investigation into this or previous years that may arise from Oct 1 onwards. End of story.

Does this mean I have to keep the company open but dormant for 6 years? Apparently not - they will accept premiums paid by the individual that will cover any investigation into both company and individual - but only if one arises during the insured 12 months.

Of course once a company is closed the risk of an investigation is reduced, but it's still hypothetically there.

[eek]

Re the Insurance query, it's not as straightforwards as what's mooted.

I'm due to retire soon and close my company, but the risk of an investigation still hangs over me, even if the company is closed.

So I picked this up with Qdos, with whom I have the insurance and they made clear that their insurance covers you not for the period that you did the work, but for a finite period for the 12 months after you have taken out the insurance, and you keep having to renew for as long as the risk is there.

Put into something a bit easier to grasp - I am contracting through my own limited company up until March 31, then switch to am umbrella company. I currently have insurance that expires on Sep 30, after which, unless I renew that insurance, I have no cover for any investigation into this or previous years that may arise from Oct 1 onwards. End of story.

Does this mean I have to keep the company open but dormant for 6 years? Apparently not - they will accept premiums paid by the individual that will cover any investigation into both company and individual - but only if one arises during the insured 12 months.

Of course once a company is closed the risk of an investigation is reduced, but it's still hypothetically there.

Not really once the company is closed the requirements HMRC need to meet for the company to be reopened and an IR35 case continued is way higher.

Once you've closed the company and HMRC have said they are happy for the company to close I wouldn't be paying more money out.

[Bonerp]

You can't really afford to be so precious about a gig. It's a temp thing and one of many clients in a long contracting career. It's over so you move on. Obviously keep it on good terms in case they want you but there is absolutely no need to be risking an investigation and being desperate to hang on on to it you land yourself in a world of trouble. Do the work, move on. It's what we do.

yep maybe being a little anxious!!

[Lance]

also just because the client puts you inside IR35 , doesn't mean that they are right.

this is possibly pedantic, but it does mean they are right.

If they determine you as inside, then you are inside. That's it. It's a fact.
No amount of opinion or dislike will change it.