Reply to: Renew or leg it

[northernladuk]

He's still a target - the entire point was that finding him will require slightly more work than merging 2 quarterly reports together to see what's changed.

For sure. We are on the same page then yes.

[eek]

Technically he kind of will. His liabilities haven't changed and his chance of winning an investigation are still nil. All that will happen that him and his target will be harder to find. In my mind his visibility doesn't affect size of the target. He's just got a chance to hide better. That's how I view it anyway.

He's still a target - the entire point was that finding him will require slightly more work than merging 2 quarterly reports together to see what's changed.

[northernladuk]

PSC to umbrella and it will be picked up via agency reporting. You then have the issue that it might look like you've always been inside.

PSC to employee and it won't show up on agency reporting. You may still need to demonstrate that the original contract wasn't inside but you won't have a big target on your back.

Technically he kind of will. His liabilities haven't changed and his chance of winning an investigation are still nil. All that will happen that him and his target will be harder to find. In my mind his visibility doesn't affect size of the target. He's just got a chance to hide better. That's how I view it anyway.

[eek]

So effectively at the same client going from PSC (through an agency) to Fixed term paye employee is no better than going via umbrella - even where a determination hasnt been performed/blanket PSC ban in place?

PSC to umbrella and it will be picked up via agency reporting. You then have the issue that it might look like you've always been inside.

PSC to employee and it won't show up on agency reporting. You may still need to demonstrate that the original contract wasn't inside but you won't have a big target on your back.

[Bonerp]

So effectively at the same client going from PSC (through an agency) to Fixed term paye employee is no better than going via umbrella - even where a determination hasnt been performed/blanket PSC ban in place?

[BlasterBates]

So, from what I understand, there hasn't been an inside determination from the Client; they have changed their engagement model and will no longer use PSCs.

Therefore, with no SDS, as one isn't needed, there isn't that same level of risk as receiving an inside SDS that's been tailored to your role. This would definitely indicate your outside gig was always inside.

If you decide to stay, and work via an umbrella, you need to keep the evidence that the company decided to change its engagement model just in case anyone comes asking. Hopefully they've worded that communication in a clear manner...

Indeed, this is no different to moving into a permanent role in a company where you were a contractor. The contractual conditions change significantly from a PSC contract with substitution clauses etc. to a contract via an umbrella.

[ladymuck]

So, from what I understand, there hasn't been an inside determination from the Client; they have changed their engagement model and will no longer use PSCs.

Therefore, with no SDS, as one isn't needed, there isn't that same level of risk as receiving an inside SDS that's been tailored to your role. This would definitely indicate your outside gig was always inside.

If you decide to stay, and work via an umbrella, you need to keep the evidence that the company decided to change its engagement model just in case anyone comes asking. Hopefully they've worded that communication in a clear manner...

[eek]

this is possibly pedantic, but it does mean they are right.

If they determine you as inside, then you are inside. That's it. It's a fact.
No amount of opinion or dislike will change it.

Well you can appeal but as you will have already picked the sane option (an umbrella company) how would you extract yourself from the umbrella company?

[Lance]

also just because the client puts you inside IR35 , doesn't mean that they are right.

this is possibly pedantic, but it does mean they are right.

If they determine you as inside, then you are inside. That's it. It's a fact.
No amount of opinion or dislike will change it.

[Bonerp]

You can't really afford to be so precious about a gig. It's a temp thing and one of many clients in a long contracting career. It's over so you move on. Obviously keep it on good terms in case they want you but there is absolutely no need to be risking an investigation and being desperate to hang on on to it you land yourself in a world of trouble. Do the work, move on. It's what we do.

yep maybe being a little anxious!!

[eek]

Re the Insurance query, it's not as straightforwards as what's mooted.

I'm due to retire soon and close my company, but the risk of an investigation still hangs over me, even if the company is closed.

So I picked this up with Qdos, with whom I have the insurance and they made clear that their insurance covers you not for the period that you did the work, but for a finite period for the 12 months after you have taken out the insurance, and you keep having to renew for as long as the risk is there.

Put into something a bit easier to grasp - I am contracting through my own limited company up until March 31, then switch to am umbrella company. I currently have insurance that expires on Sep 30, after which, unless I renew that insurance, I have no cover for any investigation into this or previous years that may arise from Oct 1 onwards. End of story.

Does this mean I have to keep the company open but dormant for 6 years? Apparently not - they will accept premiums paid by the individual that will cover any investigation into both company and individual - but only if one arises during the insured 12 months.

Of course once a company is closed the risk of an investigation is reduced, but it's still hypothetically there.

Not really once the company is closed the requirements HMRC need to meet for the company to be reopened and an IR35 case continued is way higher.

Once you've closed the company and HMRC have said they are happy for the company to close I wouldn't be paying more money out.

[David S]

Re the Insurance query, it's not as straightforwards as what's mooted.

I'm due to retire soon and close my company, but the risk of an investigation still hangs over me, even if the company is closed.

So I picked this up with Qdos, with whom I have the insurance and they made clear that their insurance covers you not for the period that you did the work, but for a finite period for the 12 months after you have taken out the insurance, and you keep having to renew for as long as the risk is there.

Put into something a bit easier to grasp - I am contracting through my own limited company up until March 31, then switch to am umbrella company. I currently have insurance that expires on Sep 30, after which, unless I renew that insurance, I have no cover for any investigation into this or previous years that may arise from Oct 1 onwards. End of story.

Does this mean I have to keep the company open but dormant for 6 years? Apparently not - they will accept premiums paid by the individual that will cover any investigation into both company and individual - but only if one arises during the insured 12 months.

Of course once a company is closed the risk of an investigation is reduced, but it's still hypothetically there.

[northernladuk]

yes PSC ban - apologies.
I'm minded the same. They even asked could I take time off and come back but how long would I need to be away for??! So much unclear.

You can't really afford to be so precious about a gig. It's a temp thing and one of many clients in a long contracting career. It's over so you move on. Obviously keep it on good terms in case they want you but there is absolutely no need to be risking an investigation and being desperate to hang on on to it you land yourself in a world of trouble. Do the work, move on. It's what we do.

[Bonerp]

Thanks for replies appreciate your input. And I think I'm on the same path as you folks.

[eek]

yes PSC ban - apologies.
I'm minded the same. They even asked could I take time off and come back but how long would I need to be away for??! So much unclear.

Well given that agency reporting is quarterly and based on payment date I suspect you would need to disappear for 6 months