Client asking my Day Rate to work out Recruiter %

**clearedforlanding** · 31 January 2018, 08:20

Often. Never had a problem having a discreet discussion with clientco about it. Occasionally I have had a clause in my contract which I have ignored.

It was interesting when I was a young un, to find out there was a 60% markup on me. Learned to negotiate rates after this.

**northernladuk** · 31 January 2018, 08:26

You won't get anywhere near 700 a day. A full consultancy charging model is different to ours, as is what they deliver. Don't get all hung up on what you charge and what they get.

**malvolio** · 31 January 2018, 08:30

First ask them how many other contractors they've asked. It would do no harm to anonymise your specific answer among all the others for when the agency gets shirty about their commercials being revealed...

At its heart this is another example of Human Remains not having a clue about their trade. If they hire a permie through an agency they will know the fee involved as a percentage of the agree salary for the hire. Why they don't ask the same question for contract resources I will never know...

**Hobosapien** · 31 January 2018, 09:04

Originally posted by ctm View Post

I've ignored the email for the moment, I've not checked my contract but I was told before my interview (4 months into my contract now) that they shouldn't ask but if they do say your not allowed to say.

Check your contract. If anything suggests you can't divulge your rate to anyone then I wouldn't put any divulgence in an email or in writing that could potentially be obtained by the agent to prove you did divulge on purpose.

Safer to have a quiet word with whoever is asking, saying you're willing to swap info, so you then know what margin you may be working with to squeeze the agent at renewal time if they are taking a bigger cut of the pie than you think is reasonable.

It's been known to 'accidentally' leave copies of invoices on fax machines* or where client may 'accidentally' see the content if agent ever asks how client found out. This has also been how other contractors find out 'accidentally' what rate fellow contractors secured from same agency to see if agent is taking the piss with rate offered to you.

* Some clients may still have one if you can submit signed timesheets and invoice to agency this way.

I know some on here say the agency's cut is nothing to do with you as long as you're happy with your rate. So why then don't agencies want it being discussed? Yep, they're creaming more than they know the client or contractor would be happy with, so don't let them get away with it. Anyone trying to argue convincingly against this on here is probably an agent in disguise.

**Lance** · 31 January 2018, 09:14

Originally posted by ctm View Post

I've been asked by my client to provide what my day rate is so they can work out what the current % is they are paying the recruiter.
They have told me this is in relation to a review they are doing of their recruiters and that someone has been charged with decreasing the % they are paying.

I've ignored the email for the moment, I've not checked my contract but I was told before my interview (4 months into my contract now) that they shouldn't ask but if they do say your not allowed to say.

There is a possibility this falls off the back of a passing comment made. We were reviewing the use of a external support company at £700 a day. I questioned their ability and they were no where near the right level for that amount of money. and it was joked "Why didn't we just give it to you" and I said "for £700 a day I would be doing backflips to get it"

My day rate is around the £300 mark.

I may be reading too much into that. Its just the email came in about 30 minutes after that meeting finished.

Anyone experienced this before?

It's not uncommon for there to be a clause in the contract preventing you from having commercial discussions about the agency's business.

It is uncommon for the agent to explicitly say something like that. That suggests to me that agent knows the client are asking, and that the agency is taking the p****.

My advice is to not get involved. If you piss on the agents chips you might get dropped like a hot potato. If asked directly just say ' sorry but that's commercial in confidence, and would breach my contract with the agent. I have also been explicitly instructed to not provide this information by <insert agent name>'. That way you behave correctly, and also answer the clients question which is 'are the agency taking the piss'

**clearedforlanding** · 31 January 2018, 09:22

Originally posted by Hobosapien View Post

I know some on here say the agency's cut is nothing to do with you as long as you're happy with your rate. So why then don't agencies want it being discussed? Yep, they're creaming more than they know the client or contractor would be happy with, so don't let them get away with it. Anyone trying to argue convincingly against this on here is probably an agent in disguise.

Too high a margin can raise unrealistic expectations at clientco. This worries me more than the agency "creaming".

**BlasterBates** · 31 January 2018, 09:37

Originally posted by ctm View Post

I've been asked by my client to provide what my day rate is so they can work out what the current % is they are paying the recruiter.
They have told me this is in relation to a review they are doing of their recruiters and that someone has been charged with decreasing the % they are paying.

I've ignored the email for the moment, I've not checked my contract but I was told before my interview (4 months into my contract now) that they shouldn't ask but if they do say your not allowed to say.

There is a possibility this falls off the back of a passing comment made. We were reviewing the use of a external support company at £700 a day. I questioned their ability and they were no where near the right level for that amount of money. and it was joked "Why didn't we just give it to you" and I said "for £700 a day I would be doing backflips to get it"

My day rate is around the £300 mark.

I may be reading too much into that. Its just the email came in about 30 minutes after that meeting finished.

Anyone experienced this before?

Just explain to them the clause in your contract. There is no reason for you to potentially get yourself into trouble. This is an issue between the agency and the client. As a lawyer would always say on any issue, never say anything.

You will not benefit if the client finds the agency takes a high margin, they will simply take the reduction for themselves. In fact it works against you because you will lose any leverage to get a rate rise which they can then swallow.

However on the good side, it does appear that you are worth more than you're getting, they're probably not getting 700 pounds but they maybe charging 500 which means you should be looking for 400 elsewhere, i.e. get yourself a decent rate for another project somewhere else.

I would focus on a new agent and a new project rather than getting involved in some sort of messy wrangle on your current project.

**TheFaQQer** · 31 January 2018, 10:32

Originally posted by BlasterBates View Post

Just explain to them the clause in your contract. There is no reason for you to potentially get yourself into trouble. This is an issue between the agency and the client. As a lawyer would always say on any issue, never say anything.

This.

I've had it in previous contracts that the rate charged should not be disclosed to the client, although I removed that before signing it. The same agency wanted a clause that effectively said if I bad-mouthed the agency to the client and they lost business as a result, then my company was liable for all their losses. That set alarm bells ringing.

**quackhandle** · 31 January 2018, 12:40

It's all about negotiation. If you get a rate you're happy with great. If not you walk away.

Moaning about with rate and what the pimp is taking during a gig makes you come across as a pain in the rear, both to client and pimp, less chance of a renewal (which is possibly a better time to renegotiate).

qh

Client asking my Day Rate to work out Recruiter %