State of the Market

[ladymuck]

Do not open a coffee shop. You won't make money and will only lose money. The volume of transactions required is high and people don't want coffee after 2pm, generally. I don't know a single person that has opened a coffee shop, even in a good high transaction area, that hasn't lost money and eventually had to shut up shop.

That's why you see so many come and go.

Agreed. Open a wine shop instead.

[avonleigh]

Yup blame the kids. Dead market is nothing to whatsoever to do with the general state of the economy, or rates of investment in the UK. And if you can't pin the blame on the kids, well it must be the small boats, or the French, or the weather, or AI, or ...

Encouraging to hear that Jobserver numbers are up around 40K though!

Where exactly did I blame the kids? Did you actually read my comments? My comment had nothing to do with the state of the market. It was just about kids have different mentality than my generation.
State of market is down to a mixture of ir35, brexit, outsourcing and successive incompetent governments and possibly AI (although not convinced on that)

[hobnob]

I'm blaming it on the WFH brigade. What we have in mainstream recruitment is a bunch of kids who are basically doing absolutely FA. They've 'learned their trade' sat at the kitchen table since lockdowns, nobody to press them, challenge them, teach them how to be professional, courteous, how to pick up a phone and call people, how to answer the phone when people call, etc. I attribute a lot of what we are seeing to this. There are some good agents but as you say, the millenials and beyond aren't them. Most of the really good agents I knew from my London days are long gone. Replaced by this shower. I honestly believe if these people were back in the office 5 days a week and supervised, trained, etc, we'd all be in a better place.

I don't think that's a Millennial issue. They were born between 1981 and 1996, so most of them are in their 30s now, with some in their 40s. I.e. they would have been working in offices for several years before lockdown started in 2020. If you're talking about generation Z (born between 1997 and 2012) then you might have a point; even then, their parents should ideally have taught them how to make a phone call long before they entered the workforce.

[sadkingbilly]

Well most of my friends and people I speak to share my sentiments.

Quite.

[oliverson]

I don't think that's a Millennial issue. They were born between 1981 and 1996, so most of them are in their 30s now, with some in their 40s. I.e. they would have been working in offices for several years before lockdown started in 2020. If you're talking about generation Z (born between 1997 and 2012) then you might have a point; even then, their parents should ideally have taught them how to make a phone call long before they entered the workforce.

You're probably right about the generation and as has been said by others, they're work shy ****ers wanting to make money by shooting crappy videos. Horrible generation.

[SussexSeagull]

Really don't think the budget will make any noticeable difference either way. We have all been waiting for various events to come and go over the last couple of years and it hasn't happened. It is a long term structural change where contractors, especially outside, have fallen out of favour.

In some respects it shouldn't be a huge surprise. Contracting should have been about bringing in a SME for a set period of time to cope with higher than normal workloads, such as a major project, before shaking hands and going off to the next engagement. In my experience in the last few years they just wanted people they could treat as permanent staff who they could easily get rid of when the time came.

[SussexSeagull]

Some of these 'horrible' youngsters actually make a fortune on YouTube and even if they don't, no one is forcing anyone to watch it. Plus it isn't just youngsters doing it.

I suspect we have several people on here who have peaked career wise (probably including me) who need someone to blame.

[sadkingbilly]

Some of these 'horrible' youngsters actually make a fortune on YouTube and even if they don't, no one is forcing anyone to watch it. Plus it isn't just youngsters doing it.

I suspect we have several people on here who have peaked career wise (probably including me) who need someone to blame.

i blame myself

[SussexSeagull]

i blame myself

I blame you as well.

[Fraidycat]

Encouraging to hear that Jobserver numbers are up around 40K though!

It is only the demand side. 40K might be ok when there are not many good candidates on the market. But with a flooded market, it is not enough to clear the back log of benched contractors and permies.

Shame we dont have many/any agents on the board who can tell us what the supply side looks like.

ie Are there more or fewer good candidates chasing each role in 2025 compared to 2024 or 2023