State of the Market

[Dorkeaux]

I'm not.
I wasn't a programmer.
I began as an engineer.

Ah, OK. I see from the UK Engineering Council:
"Commonplace use of the word engineer in our language has evolved over many centuries. Hence anyone in the UK may describe themselves as an engineer. Seeking to regulate or legislate on the use of a now common term is recognised by the Engineering Council as totally impractical."

I was thinking more in terms of the rest of the world (Continental Europe, Latin America, North America and elsewhere) where the title "Engineer" is limited by law to people with an engineering degree and the use of the title by others is illegal.

[dsc]

'Software Engineer'?
devs are NOT 'Software Engineer's.
they're application developers.
there's a world of difference.

They certainly can be as well, outside of the UK anyone with a computer science degree would be an engineer as well. Same goes for devs as a descriptor, can mean loads of things.

[oliverson]

I'm not.
I wasn't a programmer.
I began as an engineer.

And ended as a bitter old man, haunting the message boards for a career he once had, shooting down anyone's posts who dares to have aspiration!

[willendure]

Ah, OK. I see from the UK Engineering Council:
"Commonplace use of the word engineer in our language has evolved over many centuries. Hence anyone in the UK may describe themselves as an engineer. Seeking to regulate or legislate on the use of a now common term is recognised by the Engineering Council as totally impractical."

I was thinking more in terms of the rest of the world (Continental Europe, Latin America, North America and elsewhere) where the title "Engineer" is limited by law to people with an engineering degree and the use of the title by others is illegal.

Right, what I was saying before about respect. You can be an engineer and get no respect, because its not like being a lawyer or architect or doctor. But what you can do about it is become a Chartered Engineer. That is what my old man was, and he always said when the market took a downturn companies would get rid of ordinary contractors first, but the CEs they would hang on to for as long as they could. Not a CE myself, so I don't really know if it carries the same value as it once did. Probably AI/HR don't know the difference anyway, so might not help you win any more work.

[willendure]

Not the same in all industries. I work in Logistics and the key spend areas at the moment are Security [no surprise given the news], automation and data [aggregation and AI analysis] with spending consistent across the sector given all companies are at the same game.

With much of the solutions being premised about taking over a customer's supply chain at lower cost and increased efficiency it's no surprise that in times when things are tight there's a market for folks that can save businesses money. Also - just have a look at someone like GXO's spending over the last few years.

Interesting. I am doing my first ever gig in logistics at the moment. Does seem to be quite an active industry, particularly around mergers and acquisitions and a race to build more joined up solutions internationally - tough when trade policy is changing so fast with Trump.

[BlueSharp]

As a software developer, engineer I thought they were the same thing.

Just starting using CoPiliot. Not bad from what I can see, however still prefer to handwrite my code. You don't learn anything copying and pasting.

Done my job applications. Had 1 phone calls so far, which means, I will be riding my bike and visiting rh gym later in the pm.
.

Anecdotal observations are that generative models are making people more productive who use it correctly. Especially for those who are neurotypical (like dyslexia), it's not far off a turbo charge; they can get excellent ideas out quicker without being held back from the wordsmith part of the job.

Blindly copying and pasting has been going on for years from Stack Overflow; that's not a new concept introduced by AI.

[TheDude]

Back in the good old days when I was applying for a contract (investment banks, Scala) I would have a chat with the hiring manager, maybe a face to face for an hour with some of the team and an offer would be extended.

Contract Scala roles are almost non-existent at the moment so I have applied for a few permanent roles.

These typically comprise a half hour chat with an internal recruiter, an online skills test and then a couple of rounds of technical interviews followed by a chat with a senior manager and HR.

What is different is that unlike banks these people don't assume that my fifteen year experience at Goldman, Morgan Stanley, BAML etc. might actually mean that I know what I am doing, am reasonably smart and can adapt to technologies I have not used.

They are drilling into every single one of their fifteen long list of requirements including those I do not have to claim experience in. The timescales as well are ridiculous - some of these have stretched over six weeks already.


It has made me realise that some of the interviewers are jumped up, petty people that maybe I don't want to work with. It has also made me wonder if banking was more of a closed shop than I imagined in that once you are in a certain level of ability is implied and it is easier to move around within the industry.

[TheDude]

Does anyone else find LinkedIns job search functionality returns loads of irrelevant jobs if you do a keyword search?

[ResistanceFighter]

Does anyone else find LinkedIns job search functionality returns loads of irrelevant jobs if you do a keyword search?

I've been asking recruiters about what platforms they are using, and the majority say JobServe for the actual job post & LinkedIn to connect and message/chat with potential candidates

[Fraidycat]

I would have a chat with the hiring manager, maybe a face to face for an hour with some of the team and an offer would be extended.


What is different is that unlike banks these people don't assume that my fifteen year experience at Goldman, Morgan Stanley, BAML etc. might actually mean that I know what I am doing, am reasonably smart and can adapt to technologies I have not used.

When taking on a contractor who isnt as good as expected the client can send us them back to the bench in the first week or month. Or last resort not renew us.

Permies maybe leaving a good job to join the client so a bit more due diligence is required as firing a permie even in the probation period isn't the best look for the hiring manager.


The thing is there rarely any adjustment made in hiring process for ex-contractors who are on the bench but looking for perm work. Like offer a 3 month contract to perm role with a shorter interview process. They just use the same long winded permie process for everyone.