State of the Market

[Cookielove]

The government had got its way the contractor market is over.

No outside roles to be had. Inside isn’t great may as well be perm with the benefits.

I fear my contracting days are over and have to go perm if I can get perm work!

Feels very gloomy😞.

Leaving an abusive client is the best move hungry_hog! That scenario is very damaging to your mental health. I stayed way too long at my last place my boss was aggressive, nasty and all round nasty xxxxer! I hung on as it was outside and full remote but it was damaging to my well being…

[rocktronAMP]

The government had got its way the contractor market is over.

No outside roles to be had. Inside isn’t great may as well be perm with the benefits.

I fear my contracting days are over and have to go perm if I can get perm work!

Feels very gloomy😞.

Leaving an abusive client is the best move hungry_hog! That scenario is very damaging to your mental health. I stayed way too long at my last place my boss was aggressive, nasty and all round nasty xxxxer! I hung on as it was outside and full remote but it was damaging to my well being…

And it is easy to stay sweet on the honey pot. I'm glad you got away.

Even in permanent work there are some tulip managers who think that they are the berries and have the all power, vanity and ignamy to treat people like rubbish. However, it is just Karma, and like you, I wish the Radiohead karma police would turn up sooner on those horrible managers. I should've left my previous consultancy at the end of the last engagement, but I was a damn fool. I thought I had good thing going, credit in the bank, the market was still rubbish Summer 2022. So I stayed on and found myself shoved in the DWP, in the next "engagement" and there was bad technical leader over there, who I did not get on with. She stuck the kitchen knife into me so to speak. She thought I was lazy whatever, but I know my stuff. A competent consultancy that does not back its professional consultants is no good. 2023 save me! My mantra is now YOLO: NEVER TRUST, NEVER BELIEVE THE HYPE, THE PREDICTIONS.

Just to say permanent is not a lot of fun either or better than contracting. If you feel bad about your particular team and its leader(s) then get the hell out of there. Open your job search toggle on Linkedin and start looking immediately.

[Protagoras]

Just to say permanent is not a lot of fun either or better than contracting. If you feel bad about your particular team and its leader(s) then get the hell out of there.

I have always found permy much more stressful than contracting, but I'd struggle fully to explain why; freelance just feels more empowering.
Once resigned from a permy job with a consultancy in London to get away from a bullying client (consultancy refused to remove me from the assignment). Of course as soon as one resigns, it's 'what can we do to stop you leaving?' but by then I'd secured another job at £20k more (ah, the good old days!).

[FIERCE TANK BATTLE]

I wouldn't say it's completely over but for this outside gig I've been sent a long IR35 assessment tool thing, seems bespoke to the client and is supposed to be similar to the CEST tool except it will always give you a yes/no answer (apparently). Haven't done it yet because it says you should not do it until you have a copy of the contracts.

[JustKeepSwimming]

I have always found permy much more stressful than contracting, but I'd struggle fully to explain why; freelance just feels more empowering.
Once resigned from a permy job with a consultancy in London to get away from a bullying client (consultancy refused to remove me from the assignment). Of course as soon as one resigns, it's 'what can we do to stop you leaving?' but by then I'd secured another job at £20k more (ah, the good old days!).

IME permies have to bite their tongue a bit more. Like there is a written or unwritten rule in their contract that they have to lay back and think of England no matter what is asked of them. With contractors there is more of a 'It's ain't in the contract, Chief!'.

When contracting, and earning a decent rate, I've definitely felt less willing to accept bulltulip. I think that is mainly because permies aren't prepared or used to the idea they could be out of work for many months, basically a lack of confidence.

[JustKeepSwimming]

I wouldn't say it's completely over but for this outside gig I've been sent a long IR35 assessment tool thing, seems bespoke to the client and is supposed to be similar to the CEST tool except it will always give you a yes/no answer (apparently). Haven't done it yet because it says you should not do it until you have a copy of the contracts.

With the hesitation of being shot by the northern gimp. Isn't the current IR35 rules that the liability is on the client? If they say it's outside IR35 and it turns out not to be then all the liability falls on the client?

[Protagoras]

I wouldn't say it's completely over but for this outside gig I've been sent a long IR35 assessment tool thing, seems bespoke to the client and is supposed to be similar to the CEST tool except it will always give you a yes/no answer (apparently). Haven't done it yet because it says you should not do it until you have a copy of the contracts.

Is that how this works in practice these days?

My understanding is the under the Ch.10 rules the end client* should issue a SDS (preferably including an explanation of the basis of decision). Is it really up to a contractor to review contracts and answer questions?

Makes me wonder whether the contracts will be free of liability transfer clauses.

[jamesbrown]

With the hesitation of being shot by the northern gimp. Isn't the current IR35 rules that the liability is on the client? If they say it's outside IR35 and it turns out not to be then all the liability falls on the client?

You need to read more.

[FIERCE TANK BATTLE]

Is that how this works in practice these days?

My understanding is the under the Ch.10 rules the end client should issue a SDS (preferably including an explanation of the basis of decision). Is it really up to a contractor to review contracts and answer questions?

Makes me wonder whether the contracts will be free of liability transfer clauses.

I haven't reviewed it fully but I would imagine the client is basically saying, it's up to us to decide, in order for us to do that you need to fill out this questionnaire.

Then if HMRC says we think you're not behaving, they can say well we did as much due diligence as possible.

That's my guess, anyway.

[jamesbrown]

Is that how this works in practice these days?

My understanding is the under the Ch.10 rules the end client should issue a SDS (preferably including an explanation of the basis of decision). Is it really up to a contractor to review contracts and answer questions?

Makes me wonder whether the contracts will be free of liability transfer clauses.

Pretty standard, if done properly. It would be hard for the client to produce an SDS with the required reasonable care unless they coordinate with the contractor, since it’s about the expected working practices.