State of the Market

[Bluenose]

For better or worse banks pay contractors pretty well.

They used to, now they generally rank as some of the lowest paid roles, when you factor in the hours you need to do, where you need to live to be commutable and they are reliant on people locked into the M25 bubble. House/Kids/Car/Friends etc.

I think rates in banking and insurance have been generally poor since about 2012-2013 when they switched to a cartel-like system with big recruitment desks at each bank that copied one another in terms of pay and conditions.

We are seeing it now with the 'Hybrid' working nonsense, IR35 and daily-rates they just tend to operate all in unison, just like a cartel does.

[edison]

I would not take it personally, I think, judging by the tone of the thread post COVID that many people on here loved working in the City Of London 1990s-2008 simply realised that they now hated it (the City) and much of the tired corporate culture that runs it.

Sounds familiar.

Back in the mid-90s, many of my friends were IT contractors in investment banking. They seemed to be on a perpetual carousel going from one bank to another and making what seemed like a fortune. I was in a decent perm job in the tech sector (but not in IT) and my friends were earning more than four times what I did.

Come the mid-late 2000s and many had tired of it and burnt out. A lucky few effectively retired in their mid-40s, others left the sector.

For many years before I became a contractor (and even before I got into IT), I used to think contracting in the City was a glamourous high flying life. Now it's the last place I would ever consider working.

[rocktronAMP]

It's time for me to have the awkward conversation with the mortgage company.
I've never missed a mortgage payment before. I am absolutely grief stricken and racked with worry.

One question I hope they don't ask is "how long do you think it will be before you are back in work?"

I have been out since January. I thought things would pick up after the budget...
I thought things would pick up after Easter...
I thought things would pick up in May...
I think things aren't going to pick up this year...

Anyone got any idea when this tulipshow will level out?

I am so sorry man [suityou01]

I am one month or two behind you.

Talk to Business Debt Change charity right away if you haven't.
Ask the Mortgage Company for a payment holiday if you haven't.
I'm so angry and raging for you, right now. This is b*******!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your kids and your spouse.
Sorry mods I need to show my fellow industry pal EMPATHY EMPATHY EMPATHY!!!

[SussexSeagull]

I think people returning, at least part time, to the office was always going to become common once the dust settled after Covid. If you want to stick to your guns and refuse to visit the office at all I hope you have some seriously in demand skills.

[quackhandle]

So the work is in the pipeline, if you work in this sector, it might be a case of waiting it out (however that is easier said than done, if like me, your war chest has taken a hammering in last 12 months).

https://www.theregister.com/2023/04/...lowing_ovh_q2/

qh

[GigiBronz]

I think people returning, at least part time, to the office was always going to become common once the dust settled after Covid. If you want to stick to your guns and refuse to visit the office at all I hope you have some seriously in demand skills.

yes, I always thought the same that remote working is not going to stay long term. But I will refrain also from advancing the narative of the employer class. Let people think for themselves. Try not making it so binary. People are not refusing to go out of stubbornness.

The issue that I see is that everything costs a lot more than before COVID, try factoring a hotel if your client is in London and wants to see you 2/3 days per week. You will quickly find out that out of 800pd inside IR35 supposedly good rate, about half goes on taxes. Then you have food, a house and family to support that's another 200£ per day.
Then you look at how much a hotel costs in London, even the shoddy ones with stained bed linings that you would not dare to put a fluorescent light in - at least £200pn.

So your reaction, quite justifiable would be - how in hell does this make any sense? If you are working a highly demanding role only to pay bills, it is not any different than slaves hundreds of years ago. The only difference is that back in the days your owner would provide you with food and shelter, now you are given money that affords you to get only that. It is the same thing.

Contractors should stick with each other and have conversations with agents and clients and point out the obvious. Divisive narratives have no place on a contractor forum. What guns? Slaves are not allowed to own guns.

[Fraidycat]

The issue that I see is that everything costs a lot more than before COVID, try factoring a hotel if your client is in London and wants to see you 2/3 days per week. You will quickly find out that out of 800pd inside IR35 supposedly good rate, about half goes on taxes. Then you have food, a house and family to support that's another 200£ per day.
Then you look at how much a hotel costs in London, even the shoddy ones with stained bed linings that you would not dare to put a fluorescent light in - at least £200pn.

800 a day, or £9000 after tax a month, don't waste £4000 of that on hotels rooms, that is just stupid. There are much cheaper options.
Also if you have got a family and mortgage then get the wife out there working as well taking home say £3.5K a month. That then gives you a combined £150K after taxes (and much more than that if take advantage of paying into a pension).

[GigiBronz]

... There are much cheaper options...

Like what? Asking for a friend?

I knew someone that used to live in a caravan in the parking lot of Jaguar Land Rover(Leamington Spa) as a contractor. Not quite sure if that can be an option in central London.

... Also if you have got a family and mortgage then get the wife out there working as well taking home say £3.5K a month...

if you put her on a corner, £3.5k is only a slow weekend...

[avonleigh]

yes, I always thought the same that remote working is not going to stay long term. But I will refrain also from advancing the narative of the employer class. Let people think for themselves. Try not making it so binary. People are not refusing to go out of stubbornness.

The issue that I see is that everything costs a lot more than before COVID, try factoring a hotel if your client is in London and wants to see you 2/3 days per week. You will quickly find out that out of 800pd inside IR35 supposedly good rate, about half goes on taxes. Then you have food, a house and family to support that's another 200£ per day.
Then you look at how much a hotel costs in London, even the shoddy ones with stained bed linings that you would not dare to put a fluorescent light in - at least £200pn.

So your reaction, quite justifiable would be - how in hell does this make any sense? If you are working a highly demanding role only to pay bills, it is not any different than slaves hundreds of years ago. The only difference is that back in the days your owner would provide you with food and shelter, now you are given money that affords you to get only that. It is the same thing.

Contractors should stick with each other and have conversations with agents and clients and point out the obvious. Divisive narratives have no place on a contractor forum. What guns? Slaves are not allowed to own guns.

£200 a day? Where are you getting these figures from? You can stay in airbnb's for £60 a night easily.

[Bluenose]

I do wonder if anyone here actually contracts in central London on a regular basis that does not live in London.

If anything Gigibronz has underestimated the cost for a room in central london.

How do I know this? because I contract in Central London and use premier inn quite a bit.

Standard rate is about 220 per week-day night for Premier Inn and I pay that on a regular basis. Why? Because its the going rate for a decent room with a decent bed.