State of the Market

[AndrewK]

These are not average salaries here. Half that and you are getting closer to software devs average salaries.

100k is not the average salary in the UK either. I never stated anything about "average". The discussion was that a good developer is not 2x-3x cheaper comparing to the UK.
You could/can get 120k+ in the UK, you can find 100k+ in LT.
Average developer earns ~40K in LT and ~50k in the UK. Taking account currency difference, we are looking 20-30% difference max.
Contract market, you could argue was a bit more skewed, but with lower taxes and after IR35 take home will be same.

[zonkkk]

100k is not the average salary in the UK either. I never stated anything about "average". The discussion was that a good developer is not 2x-3x cheaper comparing to the UK.
You could/can get 120k+ in the UK, you can find 100k+ in LT.
Average developer earns ~40K in LT and ~50k in the UK. Taking account currency difference, we are looking 20-30% difference max.
Contract market, you could argue was a bit more skewed, but with lower taxes and after IR35 take home will be same.

Not they don't. Average developer salaries in LT are around 20,000-25,000 euros. Good senior ones can maybe get 40,000 but that is a dream job already.

Later Edit:
Actually have a look on Glassdoor or Payscale and you will see. Note these are the money that the actual employees get, and not what their employers sell them at... which is where the disconnect might be...

[AndrewK]

Not they don't. Average developer salaries in LT are around 20,000-25,000 euros. Good senior ones can maybe get 40,000 but that is a dream job already.

Later Edit:
Actually have a look on Glassdoor or Payscale and you will see. Note these are the money that the actual employees get, and not what their employers sell them at... which is where the disconnect might be...

I am talking about what I know from personal experience, not from some Glassdoor random submissions 5-10 years ago.
Not sure what do you mean about discounts, as I am talking about salary employer pays you gross, before taxes.

[zonkkk]

You mean gross before taxes.

If you are a UK company looking to outsource work to Vilnius, you might get companies selling you people at 40,000 -60,000 / year. Out of that cost to you, the developer only maybe gets half. This is the disconnect.

I have found Glassdoor to be a good indicator of the permanent market rates (a bit on the high side if anything) in multiple countries I have worked in.

[cojak]

ITjobswatch.co.uk is the website to look at for that sort of thing.

[eek]

ITjobswatch.co.uk is the website to look at for that sort of thing.

I don't think it has a Lithuania index...

[AndrewK]

You mean gross before taxes.

If you are a UK company looking to outsource work to Vilnius, you might get companies selling you people at 40,000 -60,000 / year. Out of that cost to you, the developer only maybe gets half. This is the disconnect.

I have found Glassdoor to be a good indicator of the permanent market rates (a bit on the high side if anything) in multiple countries I have worked in.

Yes gross. Fixed mistake. To be fair as an employee/contractor I don't care what my employer/customer charges his clients.
And that is never listed on the job spec or reported on Glassdoor. Not sure why we even discussing it. If he wished he can even charge less.
Moreover, there are more than enough direct roles. No need to go to some dodgy outsourcer.
Glassdoor is not a very good indicator, for a simple reason. Over the last 4-5 years, salaries changed significantly.

[lecyclist]

Yes gross. Fixed mistake. To be fair as an employee/contractor I don't care what my employer/customer charges his clients.
And that is never listed on the job spec or reported on Glassdoor. Not sure why we even discussing it. If he wished he can even charge less.
Moreover, there are more than enough direct roles. No need to go to some dodgy outsourcer.
Glassdoor is not a very good indicator, for a simple reason. Over the last 4-5 years, salaries changed significantly.

SEB (one of the better payers in the region) has a service centre in Vilnius, where a senior engineer with 8 years experience could be looking at €3,500 - 4,500 per month gross max.

Theoretically higher salaries may be on the table with consultancies who are immediately outsourcing their staff as contractors to Scandinavian clients (for example). Otherwise there is no domestic basis to support the unicorn figures being suggested.

[AndrewK]

SEB (one of the better payers in the region) has a service centre in Vilnius, where a senior engineer with 8 years experience could be looking at €3,500 - 4,500 per month gross max.

Theoretically higher salaries may be on the table with consultancies who are immediately outsourcing their staff as contractors to Scandinavian clients (for example). Otherwise there is no domestic basis to support the unicorn figures being suggested.

Danske Bank offers a bit higher salaries.
But what difference does it makes?
If you think that is a unicorn, let it be so.

Just an example a year ago job role agency sent (hunterbond.com):
C# Developer Role - Finance - Lithuania - £70,000
AVP – Senior Software Engineer – Vilnius
Moody’s Investors Service - CSS (CSS)

And that wasn't even a team lead.

[BigLadFromBeeston666]

I thought this was the State of the (UK) Market thread?