Reply to: State of the Market

[SchumiStars]

I had an interview the other day. Proper niche skill set and SC so hard to find in the market.

first stage with the COO. All good noises, you are exactly what we need ect. Just gotta meet the devs to dot the i’s…

Take home coding challenge (I never do these as past experience is that places that do this are generally not great places to work, but as I’m desperate I went along with it) quite involved spent the weekend on it.

Third stage with the ‘devs’. With one of the permies peacocking throughout. Went well decent discussions thought that’s it sorted.

spoke to the agent and he let slip that 6 other people got to the stage and were rejected, which set the spider senses tingling.

Ghosted me for 3 days then rejected me with the feedback. “You don’t have enough experience with green field development.”

despite the fact I have been doing green field pretty much exclusively for the past 5 years as a lead dev and they asked me nothing about greenfield dev.

like if that’s not enough experience for you fine, but it’s on my cv which you saw before the first interview.

sooo frustrating, first interview in 5 months on the bench and it was an utter time wasting exercise.

Lesson learnt though. Trust your gut despite how desperate you are.

Unfortunately the tech test ones usually end up like this. It can be really frustrating, as they usually take some time to get through. Then there is always the question of how good to make it and how much effort to put it.

If you put in max effort and make it perfect the techs will not want to be outshone so will not progress your CV further and if you don't put enough juice in they will call you lazy.

They very much are a complete waste of time. And when I say time, I mean a good 20hrs of effort is not unknown.

I have another problem, without sounding like a dick, my education is very good and so get young techs enjoying showing me up on the latest and greatest tools and techniques. At these points, I normally just shrug my shoulders and disconnect.

I can see why you were hopeful. And with 6 candiates put forward, that is the reason why the agent does not mind too much as he may still have someone in there. Perhaps even at a lower rate.

[SussexSeagull]

Unless you are really attempting to live the life of Riley you should be very comfortable on 100k a year but it isn't buy a mansion and put your name down for a Ferrari territory anymore.

The problem with earning good amounts of money contracting is you don't know when you are going to have a long period of not earning so get nervous spending money so might only actually see limited benefits from the risks of, essentially, being self employed.

[ladymuck]

Nonsense, 100k is over 1k more a month assuming permie tax. Also a single person has half the outgoings of a couple, probably less than half as they won't have children. So they will have a far better standard of living.

Single parents? Divorcees?

[Unix]

100K will buy you a fairly ordinary standard of living if you are a single earner because its not far off what millions of couples (each earning 35K) make after tax.

Different matter if you are couple with one earning earning 100K and the other 60K. That will be almost 10K a month after tax.

Nonsense, 100k is over 1k more a month assuming permie tax. Also a single person has half the outgoings of a couple, probably less than half as they won't have children. So they will have a far better standard of living.

[TheLordDave]

Yeah, agent was utterly confused as well.

spent the day trying to get them to see sense.

seems like a good guy so will keep in touch but overall was an utterly frustrating experience.

[ladymuck]

I hope you fed that back to the agent. it doesn't need to sound bitter, just factual. "It's a shame they didn't recognise the experience on my CV that's directly relevant and if xyz was an important criterion I would have found a way to bring it up, as they never mentioned it"

[TheLordDave]

I had an interview the other day. Proper niche skill set and SC so hard to find in the market.

first stage with the COO. All good noises, you are exactly what we need ect. Just gotta meet the devs to dot the i’s…

Take home coding challenge (I never do these as past experience is that places that do this are generally not great places to work, but as I’m desperate I went along with it) quite involved spent the weekend on it.

Third stage with the ‘devs’. With one of the permies peacocking throughout. Went well decent discussions thought that’s it sorted.

spoke to the agent and he let slip that 6 other people got to the stage and were rejected, which set the spider senses tingling.

Ghosted me for 3 days then rejected me with the feedback. “You don’t have enough experience with green field development.”

despite the fact I have been doing green field pretty much exclusively for the past 5 years as a lead dev and they asked me nothing about greenfield dev.

like if that’s not enough experience for you fine, but it’s on my cv which you saw before the first interview.

sooo frustrating, first interview in 5 months on the bench and it was an utter time wasting exercise.

Lesson learnt though. Trust your gut despite how desperate you are.

[ladymuck]

Well I have managed to find a few opportunities that didn't require FS/Insurance experience that were worth submitting my details for. Whether I'll get a call back remains to be seen.

[oliverson]

Fair enough - and I do appreciate what you are saying, contractors are generally a lot more well off than the average UK person, and I feel I have a lot to be grateful for surviving as one for the last 23 years.

But I still feel that the ambitions of ownging a house, being able to keep a car on the road, raising some kids, being able to take a holiday once in while, being able to save some money towards retirement at a reasonable age, are ordinary middle class amibitions. The sad thing is, that our definition of ordinary seems to have slipped so badly, don't you think? I guess being an ordinary Brit these days means, you might be out of work with ill health, or caring for a relative, you use food banks, you are becoming dependant on support that enables you to exist outside of employment, you do not feel like you have access to opportunities to improve your lot, if you own a car you have debt to pay on it, you have credit card debts.

Times change. My father was a builder and mother a housewife / part-time sewing machinist, perfume box packer, etc. Neither could drive, so no car, small terrace house, but one full-time wage was enough for mortgages back then. None of the credit card / loan stuff. But also, no central heating or double glazing. Life was a lot simpler back then. Basic you might call it, so yes, having said all that, I suppose I've risen above 'ordinary', if that it what I described from my upbringing born late 60's.

I think the main difference back then was that people were poor, northern England I'm talking, but they didn't overextend themselves and had not aspirations of fancy cars or foreign holidays, or anything they want RIGHT NOW, versus saving up for it. Hardly anybody went to University. But OMG, how much better was the music! I'm glad I was born when I was born and to a basic upbringing. Makes me appreciate what I have, even if sometimes I do lose sight of that.

[Fraidycat]

claim 3x the average salary makes you an “ordinary person” is hilarious.

100K will buy you a fairly ordinary standard of living if you are a single earner because its not far off what millions of couples (each earning 35K) make after tax.

Different matter if you are couple with one earning earning 100K and the other 60K. That will be almost 10K a month after tax.

[willendure]

Just looked it up at the mean (as opposed to average) gross wage in the UK is £689 per week.of which you will keep £540. I fully acknowledge the insecurity of our work but I wish some people on here would remember that when laughing at £250/£300 daily rates when a lot of the population would snap your hands off for them.

What you mean is £689 per week of which you will keep less-than-nothing, after paying your rent, bills, housekeeping, loans... What is the UK savings rate?

[willendure]

If you seriously think “ordinary people” are earning £100k+ per year, you have been deluded by the right. Average salaries in the UK are <£35k a year before tax, and that’s people paying full taxes.
You are not “ordinary people”, you are a high earner trying to avoid paying tax and trying to pretend everyone is like you, apart from those on “benefits” who only have 3 jobs to pay their bills.
If you’re earning 3x the average salary, you’re not middle income, and since your post is about money, I think “income” is a better term than “class”.
If you’re not paying 3x the average tax burden, you’re part of the problem, doesn’t matter what Farage, Tate and Yaxley-Lennon try to convince you.

Fair enough - and I do appreciate what you are saying, contractors are generally a lot more well off than the average UK person, and I feel I have a lot to be grateful for surviving as one for the last 23 years.

But I still feel that the ambitions of ownging a house, being able to keep a car on the road, raising some kids, being able to take a holiday once in while, being able to save some money towards retirement at a reasonable age, are ordinary middle class amibitions. The sad thing is, that our definition of ordinary seems to have slipped so badly, don't you think? I guess being an ordinary Brit these days means, you might be out of work with ill health, or caring for a relative, you use food banks, you are becoming dependant on support that enables you to exist outside of employment, you do not feel like you have access to opportunities to improve your lot, if you own a car you have debt to pay on it, you have credit card debts.

[oliverson]

Why is it Marxist to suggest that someone earning 3x the average salary is not on an average salary?
Nothing wrong with wanting to maximise earnings but to try to claim 3x the average salary makes you an “ordinary person” is hilarious. That’s the kind of thing populist politicians come out with.

Currently making 5 times what the 'ordinary person' gets but I'm about as ordinary as you get. Just munched down my lunch from the local chippy and I'll be off to the local pub later on for a couple of pints.

Isn't it true that we are all playing the same game, it's just the numbers that differ?

[oliverson]

Put the URL into archive.ph and they'll return the content for free

Thanks for that.

[SussexSeagull]

Just looked it up at the mean (as opposed to average) gross wage in the UK is £689 per week.of which you will keep £540. I fully acknowledge the insecurity of our work but I wish some people on here would remember that when laughing at £250/£300 daily rates when a lot of the population would snap your hands off for them.