State of the Market

[Destiny2]

First line or temping?

2nd line aka Desktop support.

[SussexSeagull]

This is the new norm

Companies are hiring just as good resources from outside UK at 1/2 the price now - now 9/5 in the office has been blown apart


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Must confess to not having seen this but your experience might be different.

[GhostofTarbera]

Must confess to not having seen this but your experience might be different.

Company I work for is rapidly expanding, in Jan last year all 50 hires were within commuting distance of London office, of the 80 or so hired since November, a few from up north and 78 from abroad.

No need to pay £100K for a Java local guy when you can get 3 or 4 for same price (and quality)

When big canary wharf and city clients realize they can get staff for same price for what it costs them just for a desk space the games a boggy


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[eek]

I'm waiting for May / June time when companies discover that a lot of people are no longer available as being inside IR35 means they can't claim expenses.

And I say June as it will be about then that contractors discover the issue as the umbrella looks at the expenses claim and says - "sorry, no can do".

[jayn200]

Company I work for is rapidly expanding, in Jan last year all 50 hires were within commuting distance of London office, of the 80 or so hired since November, a few from up north and 78 from abroad.

No need to pay £100K for a Java local guy when you can get 3 or 4 for same price (and quality)

When big canary wharf and city clients realize they can get staff for same price for what it costs them just for a desk space the games a boggy


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Yeah probably for the big guys. To get quality at the price you're talking it means hiring direct which means having the means to hire and manage offshore resources. Anyone without that size will have to be looking at intermediaries who will just swallow up the difference and they won't see any benefit. So still will be plenty of roles with local companies or some of the multinationals who just don't have the means to be able to do that effectively.

Add in that human beings are still managing companies and there will always be that desire to recommend known local resources.

Any expensive local resource should be actively working on their business acumen, industry knowledge, soft skills, and making as many friends as they can. Try and add value and get roles that can't be as effectively offshored.

If you're just a java developer who wants to work for a larger multinational and you don't have any skills outside of programming then yeah i can see why that person would be scared.

[Fraidycat]

Company I work for is rapidly expanding, in Jan last year all 50 hires were within commuting distance of London office, of the 80 or so hired since November, a few from up north and 78 from abroad.

They will eventually be hiring local guys to clean up the mess those 78 have made.

It has been like that for at least the last 20 years as we have all probably experienced.

Current client had around 100 developers in eastern europe due to favourable time zone, managers used to fly back and forth, daily zoom meetings etc, they worked really hard but it was quantity over quality as usual.

They were through a consultancy and had their own managers, how anyone is supposed to manage 78 independant developers working from abroad i dont know. It is annoying enough trying to manage a few local guys working in the office who need pushing to do any work sometimes.

I have spent the last 2 and half years cleaning up the mess, almost completely rewriting what they did from scratch and it is still not finished yet.

[GhostofTarbera]

They will eventually be hiring local guys to clean up the mess those 78 have made.

It has been like that for at least the last 20 years as we have all probably experienced.

Current client had around 100 developers in eastern europe due to favourable time zone, managers used to fly back and forth, daily zoom meetings etc, they worked really hard but it was quantity over quality as usual.

They were through a consultancy and had their own managers, how anyone is supposed to manage 78 independant developers working from abroad i dont know. It is annoying enough trying to manage a few local guys working in the office who need pushing to do any work sometimes.

I have spent the last 2 and half years cleaning up the mess, almost completely rewriting what they did from scratch and it is still not finished yet.

5/10 years ago yes I would agree

Not now by a long shot


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[Fraidycat]

5/10 years ago yes I would agree

Not now by a long shot


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There are other issues as well, like the best developers in cheap countries are in the UK and US already earning 100K+, so if want a remote worker in these places you tend to get the left overs.

Also if what you say is going to happen, there is going to be mad demand not just from the UK, but every rich EU country to hire remote developers from eastern europe, (asians being in a different time zone means the direct remote replacement model doesnt work so well). There wont be enough good developers to go around.

[simes]

I'm waiting for May / June time when companies discover that a lot of people are no longer available as being inside IR35 means they can't claim expenses.

And I say June as it will be about then that contractors discover the issue as the umbrella looks at the expenses claim and says - "sorry, no can do".

And I daresay it will be the same period of enlightenment when contractors who took the BBBL offer and borrowed, only to find that they haven't been able to work through the LtdCo at all since then will realise it is impossible to ever be able to pay it back.

I wonder if that will get back up the chain of communication.

[eek]

And I daresay it will be the same period of enlightenment when contractors who took the BBBL offer and borrowed, only to find that they haven't been able to work through the LtdCo at all since then will realise it is impossible to ever be able to pay it back.

I wonder if that will get back up the chain of communication.

Why would a agency / end client care about BBBLs?