State of the Market

[dsc]

[...]My other half has worked at a large FS place for 13 years and pretty much the whole time some redundancy, restructure or need to apply for her own job threat has been dangling over her to some degree or other.

Lego in Denmark does it all the time, there's constantly some form of reducing costs / redundancy program in place so no one can be sure of their position. This is of course to force people to not rock the boat and be grateful that they have a position. Absolutely soul destroying.

[Ketto]

What always gets me about “permanent” employment is how on a knife edge so many people seem to be. I know lots of people who have been made redundant, are going through redundancy, are at risk, being restructured etc.

My other half has worked at a large FS place for 13 years and pretty much the whole time some redundancy, restructure or need to apply for her own job threat has been dangling over her to some degree or other.

[Fraidycat]

That reminds me of the time I did a stint a the company that has the moto 'We try harder'.

They gave me a 'embodies we try harder' certificate for my work, even though I was a contractor. I was going through Giant at the time so didn't really care about the IR35 implications.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

.....I do vaguely recall some upsides too, such as recognition/attribution of your contributions a......, but there's no harm in receiving some recognition, on a basic human level. On the whole, though, fook permiedom

Just my personal experience - but I've always had more recognition as a contractor. Current permie role is akin to a bad marriage where you are pilloried for lots and praised for nowt.

[dsc]

I feel this as well, but lots of permies are more comfortable with the illusion of security.
The nutters.

It's not just the extended process of leaving, the insane onboarding cascade of interviews, tests and obstacles do not do it for me.

But needs must.
I don't think permie jobs aren't worth doing, I'm just completely unsuited to them.
Also being on half-pay bothers me. And the stupid "package" of benefits I don't want.

It is often easier to just lay low and do nothing for years, if that's what you fancy. Especially attractive if the pay package isn't half bad and your manager isn't a psycho, suits some people, lets be honest. And also you don't stick out like a sore thumb for charging £800-£1000 per day, especially in current times where everyone wants to cut costs (and I'm not saying you'll not be cut when being a permie).

[SussexSeagull]

i've seen lots of downturns.
been a contractor since '72
my point is that whingeing and moaning doesn't help.

I don't think people, in the main, are whingeing and moaning. They are offering honest assessments of the contract market as they see it.

[jamesbrown]

A genuine thanks for this note and the subsequent replies too.

I've dreaded the thought of going permie again for the reasons you state. I don't like the idea of long notice periods, HR BS, reviews and so on. However, I'm genuinely willing to give it a shot and see if age has mellowed me, being more relaxed as a permie in my early 50s than I was in my 20s and 30s.

Being permie and the stuck the post office certainly rings true but I suspect no worse than working in a large corporate in the UK.

I do take seriously the point though about mental health. I'm pretty resolute that if it doesn't work out, I will be back to contracting relatively quickly, depending on how I see people on here getting on and more importantly, ex-contractor colleagues who I know are also facing a torrid time with not finding any work.

It's been a very long time since I was a permie, but I do vaguely recall some upsides too, such as recognition/attribution of your contributions and CPD. As a contractor, you don't really expect or want that (client interaction of that nature is usually procurement running a fine toothed comb over deliverables ), but there's no harm in receiving some recognition, on a basic human level. On the whole, though, fook permiedom

[ShandyDrinker]

I'm talking to a couple of 'consultancies', the kind that originate from 'offshore' locations. They seemingly have plenty of work, if you fancy low rates. This is where our work has gone, 100%. Companies not prepared to take on contractors through their PSC's farming the work out to these consultancies who don't have the manpower. Hence they go hunting on LinkedIn and drop you a line with pretty insulting rates. The only positive is that they're usually remote. Many are inside but not all.

This, 2025 is the state of the market and I don't see it changing for the better, unless Reform get in and stand by their 'manifesto' to abolish IR35, get a grip on immigration, legal and illegal, lower taxation, promote growth, etc. Trouble is, if that happens it's unlikely to be for another 3.5 years or so, which doesn't really help me as I'll be in my early 60's and well and truly retired. But at least it might give this country (well the UK, I'm not there currently) a chance.

This very much aligns with my view and one of the reasons I'm prepared to take a permie job in the interim. I don't think anything will get any better soon. Labour have made it quite clear that they will encourage more immigration and not less, especially in relation to the H-1B crackdown in the US. I bear no ill will to those from other countries wanting a better life for themselves and their families. We'd all do it if we could. However, I bear a lot of ill will to successive politicians who have put people like me and many others in this position since 1997. However, being bitter won't achieve anything. We have to deal with it until the system is smashed up and rebuilt, which is what I am hoping Reform does. They can't be any worse than either Labour and the Conservatives.

Post the next election, I will be roughly mid 50s so there could be the possibility of one last hurrah for me to return to contracting, just in time to finish off my career before Reform either spectactularly crashes and burns after 5 years or wins another term because they've actually pulled off the radical change the country needs. It could go either way. The last thing we need in the next election is more of the same that we've had with both Labour and the Conservatives throughout my lifetime.

[ShandyDrinker]

I feel this as well, but lots of permies are more comfortable with the illusion of security.
The nutters.

It's not just the extended process of leaving, the insane onboarding cascade of interviews, tests and obstacles do not do it for me.

But needs must.
I don't think permie jobs aren't worth doing, I'm just completely unsuited to them.
Also being on half-pay bothers me. And the stupid "package" of benefits I don't want.

I agree with all of this but the point in bold is the most important.

I've been benched for just under 3 months and will be starting the permie job bang on the 3 month mark.

My experience has been that I've had a number of interviews now, which I feel lucky to have even had, given some of the stories on here. Observations this time around:

• Multi-stage interviews are now very much the norm. For contracts. FFS, really?
• Coding tests are now pretty standard.
• Even if you get to the last stage when it's meant to be just to meet the team, believe nothing until you get the paperwork.

On the last point, as used to be advised on here, don't stop looking until the first invoice has been paid. Probably good advice.

While I could have survived another 12 months or so waiting for a contract to materialise, I just didn't see it as being financially viable. I don't want to unnecessarily deplete the warchest if I don't have to.

I may well be back on here in a few months with a different story because I just couldn't face permiedom. I hope I'm wrong and will do what's right so stick it out for my family first and foremost.

[ShandyDrinker]

On a serious note, be careful of your mental health going permie. If contracting is walking through nature with a lot of freedom, being a permie can feel like being stuck in a queue at the post office for months on end. Then if you want to leave, you've got to go through the whole process with HR etc.

A genuine thanks for this note and the subsequent replies too.

I've dreaded the thought of going permie again for the reasons you state. I don't like the idea of long notice periods, HR BS, reviews and so on. However, I'm genuinely willing to give it a shot and see if age has mellowed me, being more relaxed as a permie in my early 50s than I was in my 20s and 30s.

Being permie and the stuck the post office certainly rings true but I suspect no worse than working in a large corporate in the UK.

I do take seriously the point though about mental health. I'm pretty resolute that if it doesn't work out, I will be back to contracting relatively quickly, depending on how I see people on here getting on and more importantly, ex-contractor colleagues who I know are also facing a torrid time with not finding any work.