Challenging the new HMRC guidance on SDC

**eek** · 4 May 2016, 17:52

Originally posted by DaveB View Post

HMRC seeks to impose control in new guidance | AccountingWEB

Makes grim reading.

This is an interesting line:-

HMRC is also consulting on whether the SDC test should be used for determining whether someone is within IR35.

Love to know the basis of it...

**tomtomagain** · 5 May 2016, 19:24

From your document.

Originally posted by eek View Post

A major concern with the HMRC guidance is the last example of a house builder, in which the individual is subject to site rules, is told what jobs need doing that day, and is shown plans and specifications. According to HMRC this is sufficient for there to be SDC, in which case the construction industry has a huge problem.

So that might effect the building trade but surely it means that anyone working on a project ( IT or otherwise ) is also caught.

As doing project work tends to involve following a plan and rules set by the PM and the organisation that the project is being done for.

**TheCyclingProgrammer** · 6 May 2016, 01:01

Pretty much impossible for anyone in IT or software development to pass this test as far as I can see.

Fortunately I don't work through agencies so don't have to worry about this bulltulip...for now.

The example for IT consultant is hilarious. What company hires somebody to build them a website and has absolutely NO say in what it looks like?

If you work on a team then you're stuffed. Presumably any team you join will have a set of procedures in place with regards to things like issue tracking, source control, project management methodology etc. Bang - supervision.

I look forward to seeing this bollocks being challenged in tribunals.

**GB9** · 6 May 2016, 08:03

There's a good point. Is having a say in what something looks like SDC or is it requirements spec.

If I design a database, I need to know what the client's requirements are. And as I usually work in clients that don't have my skill set, who can check the standard or correctness if my work?

A lot of the problem is not so much SDC in itself, but that HMRC guidance is attempting to change the current recognised definitions.

**MPwannadecentincome** · 16 May 2016, 19:29

Originally posted by GB9 View Post

A lot of the problem is not so much SDC in itself, but that HMRC guidance is attempting to change the current recognised definitions.

Are there current recognised definitions??

**malvolio** · 16 May 2016, 20:26

Originally posted by MPwannadecentincome View Post

Are there current recognised definitions??

Go and look up all successful employment status defence cases, starting with the RMC case... There is long standing precedent defining an employee.

**GB9** · 17 May 2016, 07:15

Originally posted by malvolio View Post

Go and look up all successful employment status defence cases, starting with the RMC case... There is long standing precedent defining an employee.

WHS

There are plenty of employment tests, which if negative mean employment cannot exist. IMO HMRC are now trying to bypass those tests by introducing a completely new set of rules that it would be very hard to pass, including only one having to be failed to show employment, and worse, just the right never mind actual use.

**malvolio** · 17 May 2016, 08:17

A couple of relevant comments here and here...

**quackhandle** · 17 May 2016, 18:10

From the link:

A major concern with the HMRC guidance is the last example of a house builder, in which the individual is subject to site rules, is told what jobs need doing that day, and is shown plans and specifications. According to HMRC this is sufficient for there to be SDC, in which case the construction industry has a huge problem.

Seems unworkable, but knowing HMRC...

qh

Challenging the new HMRC guidance on SDC