Contracting working hours: the norm

**tvr450** · 6 July 2015, 13:43

I am on a daily rate with one of my clients, I usually work 9:00-17:00, anything over that, I charge by the hour at standard rate (not 2x or anything like that).

**SteelyDan** · 6 July 2015, 13:47

Originally posted by cosmos View Post

I’m currently in talks with a company about joining as a contractor. This would be my first IT contract which I’m excited about but not sure what the norm is regarding working hours as a contractor. As a long time permie I’m used to getting my basic wage and anything in addition is (right or wrong) just ‘gratis’. However, contractors normally bill by the hour where possible as I understand it.
The company I’m speaking to, when asked what the working hours are, responded with “umm…9-5 but nobody works those hours, were all here longer than that usually”. What is the consensus on a contractors approach to this position? If I am successful I would be the first (and potentially only) contractor at the company so don’t want to alienate myself with the business immediately. Likewise, I don’t want to be taken advantage of so would welcome any advice.

Thanks

Generally, working hours are detailed within your contract.

I've not had a contract based on an hourly rate for years, so IME, it's normal to bill for days worked (as per the day rate indicated in the contract), as opposed to hours.

**SimonMac** · 6 July 2015, 13:51

It depends

Either you bill a daily rate, and therefore you will only ever charge the daily rate and no more, or you will bill by the hour, this will be determined by your agency.

Your contract will probably state "professional working day" to which there is no definition unless agreed by you and the client. What happens when you bill an 11 hour day when your client only has the budget for 8 is sually quite funny to watch

**northernladuk** · 6 July 2015, 14:04

There is no norm. You have to drop that idea now you are no longer a permie. There are clients who all operate differently and on top of that there is the fact you can negotiate. You are at the mercy of your clients to some extent and have to see what they offer in the contract and then decide if it's what you want.

Contractors do not get paid by the hour either. It varies. I've never done anything but bill by the day.

How long you do on site is up to you. If you are a 9 to 5 clock watcher then that's your call. If you are open to a bit of flexibility to keep your customer happy then good stuff. Just try not to get sucked in to a situation where you are expected to do 10 hours+ with no flexibility.

**b0redom** · 6 July 2015, 14:19

I always have the conversation fairly early on and say, do you want me to:

1) Down tools at the end of the day
2) Pay overtime
3) Have an informal gentleman's agreement

Almost everywhere has said 3, unless there's a major deadline looming and they need a lot of extra time to be worked.

**sal** · 6 July 2015, 14:46

What NLUK and b0redom said.

Usually the contract outlines a professional working day and "place-holder" time / hours that are more often than not different from what the customer actually wants/needs. This is one of my questions during an interview - What are the expected hours and how likely is there to be a demand for evening/weekend work. Usually i'm able to negotiate the gentlemen's agreement, where I work longer days as needed by and then shorter days to balance at around 40h/week. Weekend work I usually charge as additional half or full days in the weekly/monthly invoice.

If the ClientCo is expecting you to work more hours than you are happy to (regardless of the pay) you are free to exercise one of the great perks of being a contractor - decline the contract and move on.

**kevpuk** · 6 July 2015, 14:49

My current gig's contract states Professional Working Day and also refers to this as nominally 8hrs, Mon-Fri and excluding Public Holidays. In addition, it goes on to state that 0-4hrs can be billed at 0.5x Daily Rate and >4hrs at Daily Rate. There are no hours mentioned, although I tend to mirror reasonably what the permies do, so kind of 9-5~ish.

That's my start point, then I look to what 'the norm' is - in this case 7.25hrs/day, according to permie rules. Additionally, once I was asked to be available over Easter in 2014, agreed a special rate of £x/hr, which was essentially 1.5x prevailing rate.

So, most weeks I tend to chuck in somewhere close to 40hrs, with a bias on Mon-Thu when I am on-site, and shorter WFH day on Fridays......Client is happy with this, I am happy with this

Just my tuppence.....

**TheFaQQer** · 6 July 2015, 14:52

Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

There is no norm. You have to drop that idea now you are no longer a permie. There are clients who all operate differently and on top of that there is the fact you can negotiate. You are at the mercy of your clients to some extent and have to see what they offer in the contract and then decide if it's what you want.

Contractors do not get paid by the hour either. It varies. I've never done anything but bill by the day.

How long you do on site is up to you. If you are a 9 to 5 clock watcher then that's your call. If you are open to a bit of flexibility to keep your customer happy then good stuff. Just try not to get sucked in to a situation where you are expected to do 10 hours+ with no flexibility.

+1

There is no norm - even within the same client. What is normal for me isn't going to be normal for someone else in my team necessarily - particularly if I'm working away from home and have a long travel.

I've never billed by the hour. The one client I asked about it at (to avoid the "you're in late on a Monday" arguments) it was knocked straight back - one stream lead said they would terminate anyone who wanted to be on an hourly contract instead of a daily one. I'm not saying it's not done (plenty round here do it) but I've not worked with anyone who was paid hourly.

**psychocandy** · 6 July 2015, 15:27

Originally posted by cosmos View Post

I’m currently in talks with a company about joining as a contractor. This would be my first IT contract which I’m excited about but not sure what the norm is regarding working hours as a contractor. As a long time permie I’m used to getting my basic wage and anything in addition is (right or wrong) just ‘gratis’. However, contractors normally bill by the hour where possible as I understand it.
The company I’m speaking to, when asked what the working hours are, responded with “umm…9-5 but nobody works those hours, were all here longer than that usually”. What is the consensus on a contractors approach to this position? If I am successful I would be the first (and potentially only) contractor at the company so don’t want to alienate myself with the business immediately. Likewise, I don’t want to be taken advantage of so would welcome any advice.

Thanks

They all say that. To see if you flinch and come across as a lazy sod.

Personally a PWD in my eyes is 7.5/8 hours average. Yeh if it all goes wrong you stay but I dont do longer hours for free.

Start that one and you're stuck with it.

Client IMHO fall into one of these camps:-

1) Yeh do 7.5 but dont dive out the door if theres an emergency. If you work longer hours we'll see you right. MOST ARE LIKE THIS. This is the one I like.

2) Dont mind. If you work 10 hours a day we'll expect it forever. A LOT LIKE THIS.

2) Yeh 7.5 is ok but we want you to stay if its busy. But we wont be flexible if you want an hour off one day despite this. SOME LIKE THIS :-(

3) We pay you loads so we want 9-10 hours a day no matter what. SOME LIKE THIS. I avoid these ones.

Contracting working hours: the norm