Lorien "We don't change our contracts in response to IR35 reviews"

[Avalonia]

I've contracted through Lorien, they won't negotiate

[SueEllen]

I've contracted through Lorien, they won't negotiate

They do - it depends on how you go about it.

[Avalonia]

I would be interested in seeing recent examples of that.

[vwdan]

I would be interested in seeing recent examples of that.

They altered their contract in March by issuing an addendum for me, after a QDOS contract review. Actually, I found them very good throughout.

[7specialgems]

They altered their contract in March by issuing an addendum for me, after a QDOS contract review. Actually, I found them very good throughout.

In the end, I got my alterations in the same way.

Tip for others - have B&C, QDos et al deal directly with them in the first instance.

[DaveB]

In this case yes. Without dropping down into low level detail, some of the features and language of the boiler plate Lorien contract are at odds with the laid back attitude and office practices at the end client (known to be true as these were discussed during the interview).

If it's GDS (from that description) then existing contracts are still running under CIPHER but any new resources are brought in under CL1. Their hiring process is written up on a whiteboard in one of the office areas. The first line reads "Contact CL1 Team".

[Tasslehoff]

1 : Had contract reviewed by QDOS
2 : Sent failed review to Agent
3 : Revised contract was posted which I signed


All very easy and hassle free.

[sunflower]

Some of the contracts Lorien has are 'time and materials' based. They are not for pieces of project work (that's the ideal to be outside IR35 - deliverables). You might see clauses that ' contractor will not make any personal phone calls outside of lunchtime or during the office hours'.
That would restrict you from running a business. Of course, you are there for a customer and do not abuse this. (Normally, if you were on a call to another client or your accountant, you would simply make sure you stay back longer to compensate and make up the lost 10 minutes here or there).

A commercial law specialist will tell you that if the agency can tie these stipulations on time and materials to security and data protection, even these clauses could look grey for an IR35 review. eg you are working on a secret project for public sector. You can only be in the office during office hours when the other staff are there in case you went snooping around after the permanent staff left to find information in an illicit manner.

Try to get to chat with someone in the legal department at Lorien before you ditch the project.

They seem very intent on not adding things to contracts there and it's harder to negotiate than with other suppliers, but try it.

Good luck sorting that out.