Oh how could we be so stupid?

[SueEllen]

seeing as housing demand lags behind population growth by about 20 years I'd say that not building houses is the problem.
And as we have an ageing 'natural' population we need immigration to keep the economy running so they also need houses. Ergo we need to build more houses.

Build more houses.....

And not everyone is a NIMBY.

In my area they tried to build a supermarket. The vast majority of the complaints against the planning application included "we need more housing not a supermarket". The schools and doctors are full round here.

[vetran]

seeing as housing demand lags behind population growth by about 20 years I'd say that not building houses is the problem.
And as we have an ageing 'natural' population we need immigration to keep the economy running so they also need houses. Ergo we need to build more houses.

Build more houses.....

Well if population growth comes from child birth then possibly there might be a 20 year lag. As it has manly come from immigration its an immediate need.

We don't need immigration to replace an ageing natural population we just need the employers to not want cheap easily manipulated labour. Zero hour contracts at minimum wage depend on an over supply of workers.

Many people can happily work well into their 70s and many actually choose to do so. Many disabled and disenfranchised people could work if jobs were available.

Yes some jobs are too physical for older people but most of these are being automated as machines will do them faster & safer.

[DealorNoDeal]

I wonder how much you'd have to pay Brits to get them to do the jobs mostly only immigrants are prepared to do?

[vetran]

I wonder how much you'd have to pay Brits to get them to do the jobs mostly only immigrants are prepared to do?

Well thanks to shrinking EU migration we are about to find out, it seems 50% more than NMW for waiting staff in London.

I have always said I was quite happy to clear tables for £125K the equivalent wage the Eastern Europeans earnt in 2004 coming over here.

Scarcity of staff will ensure that employers drop their high expectations.

[BlasterBates]

I wonder how much you'd have to pay Brits to get them to do the jobs mostly only immigrants are prepared to do?

A business wouldn't be able to afford to offer enough pay to entice British people into these jobs, what happens is they go out of business, so the economy shrinks until as such time as Brits are so desperate they'll work in low paid jobs.

[vetran]

A business wouldn't be able to afford to offer enough pay to entice British people into these jobs, what happens is they go out of business, so the economy shrinks until as such time as Brits are so desperate they'll work in low paid jobs.

Any proof? or just uninformed opinion?

Many friends an my wife's customers (British and otherwise) are in these low paid jobs scratching to make ends meet. Their wages have not risen because they have been undercut by cheap imported labour.

[BlasterBates]

Any proof? or just uninformed opinion?

Many friends an my wife's customers (British and otherwise) are in these low paid jobs scratching to make ends meet. Their wages have not risen because they have been undercut by cheap imported labour.

Japan, an aging population and no immigration results in:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/mgbk...internet-cafes

The Japanese Workers Who Live in Internet Cafes

Coming to Britain in the next decade.

[DealorNoDeal]

I know farmers down here haven't been able to get Brits to pick fruit, veg, daffs for a very long time.

30 years ago they were able to get Brits to do it but only because they were paying cash in hand to mainly folks on benefits. The DSS soon put a stop to this, regularly raiding the fields.

Before Brexit, most of the pickers were Eastern Europeans. The farmers even provided them with living accommodation.

I recently heard on the local radio that farmers are now struggling to get them to come.

[vetran]

Japan, an aging population and no immigration results in:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/mgbk...internet-cafes




Coming to Britain in the next decade.

Already here, strangely most residents were immigrants. 10 to a room so they could afford to live on below minimum wage.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a3723786.html

A

round 9,000 illegal “beds in sheds” housing tens of thousands of people have sprung up across London over the last five years, a report says today.

London Tories warn the unregistered dwellings provide sub-standard living conditions and conceal illegal immigration, trafficking and benefit fraud.

do keep up.

So your story about the abuse of the gig economy because there is a shortage of permanent jobs is your justification for massive immigration?

[vetran]

I know farmers down here haven't been able to get Brits to pick fruit, veg, daffs for a very long time.

30 years ago they were able to get Brits to do it but only because they were paying cash in hand to mainly folks on benefits. The DSS soon put a stop to this, regularly raiding the fields.

Before Brexit, most of the pickers were Eastern Europeans. The farmers even provided them with living accommodation.

I recently heard on the local radio that farmers are now struggling to get them to come.

OK lets use a reliable source for low pay:

https://www.bigissue.com/latest/why-...rs-pick-fruit/

Fears over Brexit and a depreciating pound is making the prospect less and less enticing when identical jobs are available in other countries like Germany, which has a more agreeable exchange rate.

The job is tough and physical. There are early starts – shifts run from 6am to 3pm with breaks. In current heat a 45-hour week can look long.

But the pay on offer does not conform to type, with pickers typically earning on average between £400 and £450 per week – just above minimum wage – while the highest earners take home £675 with bonuses.

Feck me a remote possibility of £15 an hour for a 6am start once I have paid the extortionate rent on the accommodation the farms insist you use. It ain't free! They can get that on benefits if they have kids.

“There is also a perception that if you come and do temporary work for us then you have to come off benefits and it can be difficult to get back on once you’re done. It is a long and arduous process to get back on and that can put people off when they can go into a town and get a permanent position in a high-street store.”

Yep getting back on benefits is apparently a pain with a 6 week wait. What will the kids eat then?


So what do you think is the solution?
1.More cheap imported workers? That we would subsidise via Gordon the Moron's tax credits.
2. Pay a living wage and see the cost of strawberries rise?
3.Invest in harvesting technology like other countries?

I would say 2&3 what about you?