Second referendum (split from the gammons thread)

[malvolio]

I can't help but think that the etymology of the word and its correct usage will be beyond the scope of those who don't really understand the concept of "We asked everyone and most said 'Leave'"...

[NotAllThere]

I can't help but think that the etymology of the word and its correct usage will be beyond the scope of those who don't really understand the concept of "We asked everyone and most who were eligible and expressed a preference said 'Leave'"...

FTFY

What I find extraordinary is the number of people who think that once something has been voted on - that's it. No one can ever change their mind. Society's view cannot change. The "will of the people" is fixed at an invariant time point and must never ever be questioned.

The number of people who fail to understand that British parliamentary democracy means that when all else fails (like a government actually having a majority), MPs get to choose what they think is the best for the country.

If there is a new referendum and the majority vote yes - or indeed vote no - that is just as democratic as the original vote. Perhaps even more so, since across the opinion spectrum far more people have educated themselves on the implication. Who knew what the Norway option meant back in 2016?

[Old Greg]

FTFY

What I find extraordinary is the number of people who think that once something has been voted on - that's it. No one can ever change their mind. Society's view cannot change. The "will of the people" is fixed at an invariant time point and must never ever be questioned.

That's how an Enabling Act works.

[xoggoth]

If there is a new referendum and the majority vote yes - or indeed vote no - that is just as democratic as the original vote

So if they vote to remain it would be democratic to have yet another referendum if enough change their minds again? When does it end?

[Old Greg]

So if they vote to remain it would be democratic to have yet another referendum if enough change their minds again? When does it end?

Democracy ends with an Enabling Act.

[shaunbhoy]

What I find extraordinary is the number of people who think that once something has been voted on - that's it. No one can ever change their mind. Society's view cannot change. The "will of the people" is fixed at an invariant time point and must never ever be questioned.

Nobody should even be considering returning to the people until the very thing that they manifestly and convincingly requested be enacted has come to pass.

It is not good enough to suggest that the complete and utter failure of the Politicos that purportedly represent us, and whom we vote into power to fulfill this mandate (when we are speaking about Referendums such as this) somehow gives grounds for a recount.

Unsurprisingly, this glides serenely over the empty heads of the breast-beating pious hypocritical Remainiac blockheads on here.

Hark....is that the sound of a pompous Whorty strutting towards this post in search of some phrase, word, or context that he can then go bleating to the Mods about like the whining malcontent he is?

[darmstadt]

[Old Greg]

Nobody should even be considering returning to the people until the very thing that they manifestly and convincingly requested be enacted has come to pass.

It is not good enough to suggest that the complete and utter failure of the Politicos that purportedly represent us, and whom we vote into power to fulfill this mandate (when we are speaking about Referendums such as this) somehow gives grounds for a recount.

Unsurprisingly, this glides serenely over the empty heads of the breast-beating pious hypocritical Remainiac blockheads on here.

Hark....is that the sound of a pompous Whorty strutting towards this post in search of some phrase, word, or context that he can then go bleating to the Mods about like the whining malcontent he is?

I'm all for the UK leaving the EU and joining EFTA which would enact the referendum result but the Brextremists would probably start murdering MPs. Better to have a referendum first to determine how the UK leaves. I do agree with the sentiment that a second referendum shouldn't include Remain as an option, but it's not the end of the world if it does.

[WTFH]

the Brextremists would probably start murdering MPs.

They already started. And the apologists were silent.

[NotAllThere]

So if they vote to remain it would be democratic to have yet another referendum if enough change their minds again?

Yes. It would be. Why not?

The Swiss, with their system of direct democracy via referenda, have done this from time to time and they haven't exactly collapsed into chaos.

In the 2nd referendum petition debate, the Tory minister dismissed the petition on the grounds that if it were given any credence, then should Jeremy Corbyn be elected PM, it would mean a petition could be set up for a referendum on whether he should step down. "How is that democratic", he asked. Again, in Switzerland, you can directly vote a politician out of office.

It all depends on how your definition of democracy. For me a second referendum is an affirmation of democracy, for you it is a negation.