No deal better than a bad deal

[WTFH]

Reading this thread demonstrates everything that is wrong with the UK and its relationship with the EU.

We have on this thread, remainers complaining about a UKMEP who apparently has repeatedly not done the job he was ELECTED to do and being paid to do.

On the other hand we have a Brexiteer defending that UK MEP and putting forward an argument that the MEPs view was that he was simply out gunned and therefore his vote was irrelevant.

He was a committee member - one of about 50.
He was one of the two representatives on the committee from the UK.
The other countries had up to 2 committee members each. No one country had 40 members. It was a democracy, a bit like the UK House of Commons.
The committee meets about 20 times a year. They discuss, debate and negotiate before coming up with their proposals which they vote on.

You can't be out-gunned if you fail to turn up to discuss
You can't complain that you are being treated as irrelevant if you are not going to negotiate or vote.
You don't change something by just sitting on the outside moaning about it. You need to be involved if you want to have influence.
If he didn't like the policies of the fisheries committee, "there is no point in moaning about it - (he) should have got off (his) backside and done something about it when (he) had the opportunity to do so. (to quote your last sentence)

[Yorkie62]

He was a committee member - one of about 50.
He was one of the two representatives on the committee from the UK.
The other countries had up to 2 committee members each. No one country had 40 members. It was a democracy, a bit like the UK House of Commons.
The committee meets about 20 times a year. They discuss, debate and negotiate before coming up with their proposals which they vote on.

You can't be out-gunned if you fail to turn up to discuss
You can't complain that you are being treated as irrelevant if you are not going to negotiate or vote.
You don't change something by just sitting on the outside moaning about it. You need to be involved if you want to have influence.
If he didn't like the policies of the fisheries committee, "there is no point in moaning about it - (he) should have got off (his) backside and done something about it when (he) had the opportunity to do so. (to quote your last sentence)

If you don't like the way he is representing you. Vote him out of a job

[WTFH]

If you don't like the way he is representing you. Vote him out of a job

I didn't vote for him.

But some think he is right to fail to attend meetings or vote, then to publicly turn round and say that it's not his fault that he didn't turn up. He is the ultimate posterbhoy snowflake for Brexit.

[Yorkie62]

I didn't vote for him.

But some think he is right to fail to attend meetings or vote, then to publicly turn round and say that it's not his fault that he didn't turn up. He is the ultimate posterbhoy snowflake for Brexit.

Good, so long as you actually did vote for something you have exercised your democratic right. If you lost get over it and try harder next time.

[Bean]

No, there were far more meetings while he was a member. Feel free to fill in the blanks with your own verifiable data, otherwise the 1/42 stands as representative of his care and attendance. It's certainly representative of his care and attendance for the period that those meetings and votes cover (obvs).

The main point though, which you chose to ignore, is that he’s being paid to represent his constituents in the EP and in committees. He’s not being paid to ‘win’ every time, he’s being paid to negotiate Britain’s interests and represent us no matter what the outcome. If he cared about fishing as much as he cared about Brexit, he would have turned up regardless and argued his case every time.

Just wanted to see whether you'd double down on what some posters on here call dishonestly engaging...

You're the one posting the 1/42 figure - do you not think YOU should have researched the stats behind it?

Here's the years he was on the committee;
2002, 2004, 2007, 2009, 2012, 2013

Here's the years that were selected, to make that 'statistic';
2010, 2011, 2012

Can you spot the difference?

Do you reckon they were using selective dates, to get a headline? Answers on a postcard please...

PS. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results”.

[Bean]

How often was he outvoted in the fisheries committee?
How often did he debate and discuss in the fisheries committee?
Was he there representing UKIP or was he democratically elected to represent part of the UK?

Please, provide the answers before wasting my time with any more of your fluff.

Again, surely the onus is on you, the poster of figures (1/42) and labeller of people (doesn't care)?

But still;

Home | Nigel FARAGE | MEPs | European Parliament
Nigel FARAGE - VoteWatch Europe

I'm sure a committed Europhile like yourself can now easily find the answers you're looking for, you know - so you know what you're talking about, rather than lazily posting an old, 'statistic' that uses an extremely selective and incomplete set of data, for the MEP in question....

[WTFH]

How often was he outvoted in the fisheries committee?
How often did he debate and discuss in the fisheries committee?
Was he there representing UKIP or was he democratically elected to represent part of the UK?

Please, provide the answers before wasting my time with any more of your fluff.

He did vote though, in multiple votes on the fisheries committee, or do you believe otherwise? How many meetings HAS he attended, according to you?
(Or are you being very selective in what dates you are using to make your 'fact' true?)

I meant, given the votes that occurred, when he was absent - would his vote have mattered, how many UKIP members were on the committee, versus how many total... i.e. Is his point about being outvoted valid or not

In fact, during the 'key votes' that people like to bring up, there were ~10 UKIP MEPs able to vote, and approximately 670 MEPs total - giving UKIP ~1.49% of the vote.... so yes, he did have a point.
(i.e. if they all turn up and all vote against, the net result is the same, outvoted)

HTH

Again, surely the onus is on you, the poster of figures (1/42) and labeller of people (doesn't care)?

But still;

Home | Nigel FARAGE | MEPs | European Parliament
Nigel FARAGE - VoteWatch Europe

I'm sure a committed Europhile like yourself can now easily find the answers you're looking for, you know - so you know what you're talking about, rather than lazily posting an old, 'statistic' that uses an extremely selective and incomplete set of data, for the MEP in question....

So, you don't know how often he was outvoted, but it's the nearest thing to a counter you have. I haven't posted in this thread about 1 out of 42 meetings, but I'm sure you'll find a thread where I've said it maybe 2 years ago.
In a democracy, the losing side will always be outvoted by the winning side, but perhaps you don't want a democracy, perhaps you think NF should have a dictatorship in the UK, so he doesn't get outvoted by a democratic majority who have met, debated and negotiated.

How often was he outvoted in the fisheries committee?
How often did he debate and discuss in the fisheries committee?
Was he there representing UKIP or was he democratically elected to represent part of the UK?

Go on, take a go at answering the questions.

I'll be patient.

[Bean]

So, you don't know how often he was outvoted, but it's the nearest thing to a counter you have. I haven't posted in this thread about 1 out of 42 meetings, but I'm sure you'll find a thread where I've said it maybe 2 years ago.
In a democracy, the losing side will always be outvoted by the winning side, but perhaps you don't want a democracy, perhaps you think NF should have a dictatorship in the UK, so he doesn't get outvoted by a democratic majority who have met, debated and negotiated.

How often was he outvoted in the fisheries committee?
How often did he debate and discuss in the fisheries committee?
Was he there representing UKIP or was he democratically elected to represent part of the UK?

Go on, take a go at answering the questions.

I'll be patient.

Was he there representing UKIP or was he democratically elected to represent part of the UK?
False Dichotomy - the answer is both, which is why the party is on the MEP ballot along with their name - surely you already knew this????

For your other two questions I'll first need your requirements to be clear;
Are you expecting an answer based upon the very selective dates used for the 1/42 'statistic', or do you mean during ALL the dates for which he was a member of the committee (see the response to meridian for more details)?

HTH

[Bean]

Forgot to add - WTFH, you never answered this question, from thread post #16

How many meetings HAS he attended, according to you?

[Old Greg]

Was he there representing UKIP or was he democratically elected to represent part of the UK?
False Dichotomy - the answer is both, which is why the party is on the MEP ballot along with their name - surely you already knew this????

That's incorrect. He is elected to represent constituents, not the party. Think of it this way. Whose interests is he elected to represent?