Reply to: No deal better than a bad deal

[NotAllThere]

Dr Liam Fox-it Up Again.

[darmstadt]

Must be some new organisation set-up just for Brexit:

[Bean]

Do you have any evidence of this? Or is it just an assumption of yours personally with no factual basis behind it?

It's a leap, (but not a major one) a suggestion...

except the British MEP who was given the job didn't care about the UK fishing industry.

No reference to making a suggestion, or that the statement is a leap in any way - which is why I asked if there was a quote etc...

Compare your post and language, to my reasonably clear (to most with reading comprehension) post:

It goes someway to prove, that he can and does contribute using those qualities you listed as 'constructive', so it's not a major leap to suggest he could and does do the same in committees.

HTH BIDI

Also, how are you getting on with

I can't be bothered wasting my time any more with you.

Only 3 posts addressed to me, since you posted that eh?
You must have given your login details to someone else, otherwise you're a right wally eh

[WTFH]

It goes someway to prove, that he can and does contribute using those qualities you listed as 'constructive', so it's not a major leap to suggest he could and does do the same in committees.

Do you have any evidence of this? Or is it just an assumption of yours personally with no factual basis behind it?

[meridian]

Why? Because;

(Although the 'you' in that quote is WTFH)

“Contribute” might be a bit strong. I’ve heard from more than one MEP that he has a habit of turning up in the EP, making a big noise and bluster to ask a question, and then doesn’t bother hanging around for the responses.

The video of him asking the question turns up on his social media, and the Express runs a “Watch as Farage DESTROYS MEPs with his question” type thing.

Be careful you’re not confusing “contribute” with “well-worked social media campaign”.

[Bean]

Why do you keep posting links to debates in the European Parliament? That’s not the Committee.

Come back when you’ve got any evidence at all that he’s attended or debated in the Committee.

Why? Because;

It goes someway to prove, that he can and does contribute using those qualities you listed as 'constructive', so it's not a major leap to suggest he could and does do the same in committees.

(Although the 'you' in that quote is WTFH)

[meridian]

Yes, fantastic. I was pointing out the full figures behind the outcomes of the 'key votes', that are listed on the Greenpeace page;
Farage’s voting record on fishing ‘makes mockery’ of new election poster | Greenpeace UK

Also;





Do all the committee members share your thoughts exactly? It's a good ideal.

I've said before, he has contributed before, with information easily accessible on the EP, but not so much on the committee;
Here's a some contributions on Fishing to the EP, Oct 2003;
Debates - Wednesday, 8 October 2003 - Fisheries partnership agreements with third countries
and another, Jan 2003
Debates - Thursday, 16 January 2003 - Fishing in international waters
and another, Nov 2002
Debates - Monday, 18 November 2002 - Common fisheries policy (CFP)
and another, May 2002
Debates - Wednesday, 29 May 2002 - Common fisheries policy

Nigel asking for cost/benefit analysis;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUYrj-mjIu4

Why do you keep posting links to debates in the European Parliament? That’s not the Committee.

Come back when you’ve got any evidence at all that he’s attended or debated in the Committee.

[Bean]

He was one of 2 UK representatives - representing the UK electorate. You're obsessed with him representing a party, not the people who elected him. He was on a committee of approx 50 people. There weren't 10 of him there weren't 670 others.

Yes, fantastic. I was pointing out the full figures behind the outcomes of the 'key votes', that are listed on the Greenpeace page;
Farage’s voting record on fishing ‘makes mockery’ of new election poster | Greenpeace UK

Also;

It goes someway to prove, that he can and does contribute using those qualities you listed as 'constructive', so it's not a major leap to suggest he could and does do the same in committees.

In any democracy, the losing side will be outvoted by the victorious side, that's the amazing thing about democracy.
In a dictatorship, the dictator gets his own way and isn't outvoted.
In a committee, a group of people meet to reach an agreed decision. Good constructive debate will mean that while people may have to make compromises, the result should be the best that the group can achieve that does not overly support one small group, or overly reject another.

If NF was ever elected as a UK MP, he would be 1 in 650. He would be outvoted in everything if he always started out at working out how he could protest all the time.

Do all the committee members share your thoughts exactly? It's a good ideal.

I've said before, he has contributed before, with information easily accessible on the EP, but not so much on the committee;
Here's a some contributions on Fishing to the EP, Oct 2003;
Debates - Wednesday, 8 October 2003 - Fisheries partnership agreements with third countries
and another, Jan 2003
Debates - Thursday, 16 January 2003 - Fishing in international waters
and another, Nov 2002
Debates - Monday, 18 November 2002 - Common fisheries policy (CFP)
and another, May 2002
Debates - Wednesday, 29 May 2002 - Common fisheries policy

Nigel asking for cost/benefit analysis;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUYrj-mjIu4

[Bean]

No, that's why i didn't cite it or put it in inverted commas claiming it was.

Ah, so no factual basis behind it. Glad that's been cleared up.

Is "protest vote" his term for the results of the debates, or yours?

Mine, but could also be his too.

Does it sound like the kind of democratic thing someone would do after every democratic discussion?

Do what? You're not being very clear

I've asked you what you mean by this, but as usual, you have avoided it.

Addressed in Post #15;

I meant, given the votes that occurred, when he was absent - would his vote have mattered, how many UKIP members were on the committee, versus how many total... i.e. Is his point about being outvoted valid or not

I've just checked my posts on here, and I can confirm that not every single post I have ever made on here is about NF.
No, he does not have a point. he has failed his electorate. He preaches that others should stand down when they fail, but he refuses to.

Perhaps I should have phrased it better, it means, whenever you bring up his attendance failures, you never include his reasoning/explanation - which gives the impression of bias on your part and only telling part of the story

[Bean]

You don't know the difference between 15 and 16

I do, it's called a mistake, one I corrected and would have thought that you could have spotted it, but you tried to use it as a cudgel instead

A bit of common sense, or searching, would have told you I mistook post #16 for post #15, so as you were;

You claim that I have said 1 out of 42 in this thread.

Yes, that was incorrect and you corrected me and I haven't claimed it after your correction... what more do you want?

You claim that you don't know how many meetings Farage has attended, but anyone who provides figures is wrong in your eyes.
Want me to go on?

You can certainly try - but how does that compute, given your statement;

I can't be bothered wasting my time any more with you.

Gosh, I sure hope you didn't post anything addressed to me after this post - otherwise you'd look like a fool
(Ahem, Posts #68 & #69 )

I'm saying there were more than 42 meetings held by the committee, during which Nigel was a member, so either Greenpeace don't know either (suggesting the data is not available from the EU), or that they're being disingenuous with their 'statistic', that then gets parroted out by all the haters...

Want me to list the number of questions you have refused to answer directly, or where, rather than answering, you reply with a question?

Sure, why not - but see above, fool.

You got what you voted for - chaos.

I voted to Leave the EU, which we haven't done yet - so I haven't yet got what I voted for, yet.

HTH

[NotAllThere]

You've made up numbers, wailed a lot and wasted oxygen

On an online forum, surely that should be "needlessly shifted a lot of electrons around"?

[WTFH]

In fact, during the 'key votes' that people like to bring up, there were ~10 UKIP MEPs able to vote, and approximately 670 MEPs total - giving UKIP ~1.49% of the vote.... so yes, he did have a point.

He was one of 2 UK representatives - representing the UK electorate. You're obsessed with him representing a party, not the people who elected him. He was on a committee of approx 50 people. There weren't 10 of him there weren't 670 others.

(i.e. if they all turn up and all vote against, the net result is the same, outvoted)

HTH

In any democracy, the losing side will be outvoted by the victorious side, that's the amazing thing about democracy.
In a dictatorship, the dictator gets his own way and isn't outvoted.
In a committee, a group of people meet to reach an agreed decision. Good constructive debate will mean that while people may have to make compromises, the result should be the best that the group can achieve that does not overly support one small group, or overly reject another.

If NF was ever elected as a UK MP, he would be 1 in 650. He would be outvoted in everything if he always started out at working out how he could protest all the time.

[WTFH]

Is there a direct quote from the MEP in question?

No, that's why i didn't cite it or put it in inverted commas claiming it was.

Or are you asserting that due to his relatively low participation during votes?
(Something he asserts as being a result of always being outvoted by other members, so there being no point in his 'protest vote')

Is "protest vote" his term for the results of the debates, or yours? Does it sound like the kind of democratic thing someone would do after every democratic discussion?

What was the committee voting weighting btw?

I've asked you what you mean by this, but as usual, you have avoided it.

Did/does he have a point?
(I ask you personally, as you always bring this up but never address his own reasoning behind it...)

I've just checked my posts on here, and I can confirm that not every single post I have ever made on here is about NF.
No, he does not have a point. he has failed his electorate. He preaches that others should stand down when they fail, but he refuses to.

[WTFH]

Which numbers did I make up?

You don't know the difference between 15 and 16
You claim that I have said 1 out of 42 in this thread.
You claim that you don't know how many meetings Farage has attended, but anyone who provides figures is wrong in your eyes.

Want me to go on?

Want me to list the number of questions you have refused to answer directly, or where, rather than answering, you reply with a question?

I can't be bothered wasting my time any more with you.

You got what you voted for - chaos.

[meridian]

ftfy

As I said, I can’t qualify that. If you can, feel free.