Labour to support anti no deal amendment

[BlasterBates]

They are only significant if you count them as people that might have voted in your favour. They chose not to vote and therefore their votes were not included. The facts are the motion was supported by 7 votes which tells you one thing. There is no consensus in the UK parliament for anything which has Brexit included in its title or subject matter. It has nothing to do with what is good for the country it is all about political points scoring.

Now who was that Catholic that had an idea how to sort out parliament one November?

Sent from my SM-G955F using Contractor UK Forum mobile app

If 22 Tory MPs were to continue to abstain in further amendments the amendments will go through.

i.e. the abstensions mean the government loses.

[Whorty]

They are only significant if you count them as people that might have voted in your favour. They chose not to vote and therefore their votes were not included. The facts are the motion was supported by 7 votes which tells you one thing. There is no consensus in the UK parliament for anything which has Brexit included in its title or subject matter. It has nothing to do with what is good for the country it is all about political points scoring.

Now who was that Catholic that had an idea how to sort out parliament one November?

Sent from my SM-G955F using Contractor UK Forum mobile app

Are you advocating violence because you're not getting your own way. Apart from a few right wing thugs, can't see many Brexiters being bothered to get off their asses and rioting on the streets. Too many OAP specials to be had down the 'spoon

What you Brexiters keep forgetting, is the ref was only 52/48. A significant minority didn't want Brexit. It is therefore wrong for the minority to inflict a no deal Brexit when the majority of the country do not want a no deal exit.

Let's do the maths (I'll make it simple for you).

Let X = Remain % (by definition against no no deal)
Let Y = Leavers % (not all will be for a no deal solution)
Let Z = % of Leavers who want no deal

We know X = 48%
We know Y = 52%
We don't know Z, but it is fair to assume it is < 100% for sure given comments on forums and leavers who are interviewed on tv news channels.

Those voters therefore that we can assume have a preference for no deal will be:

Y * Z

In order to have a majority supporting no deal (i.e. where Y*Z > 50%) Z would need to be approximately 96.5%. this would give Y*Z = 50.18% That is to say, 95.6% of all those that voted leave would also need to want a no deal Brexit. Now, I'm under no illusion that a high number of Brexiters would love a no deal Brexit, shove it up the EU etc etc, but there is no way that figure is as high as 96.5%

Thus, whilst Brexit is the direction of travel, there is no mandate from the British public for a no deal Brexit. In fact, to deliver such would be to allow a minority to have their wish over those of the majority [where X + Y * (100-Z) do not want a no deal].

Hope the numbers are simple enough for you. If not, well, tough luck

[BlasterBates]

The thing about a democracy is that the majority always prevail. If the majority want a no deal Brexit they get it at the latest at the next election, i.e. only "no deal" Brexit candidates will be elected.

The fact is that the Labour manifesto was clearly "Brino" and there was a hung parliament. Hard Brexit died in the 2017 election. If the Tories had won a whopping majority, May would be toast and Jacob-Rees Mogg would be Brexit secretary.

[Lance]

Abstensions are significant, they're not "don't knows", all part of the parliamentary arithmetic.

Depends if they were paired.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Depends if they were paired.

My Tory MP was attending a funeral so did not vote. He was paired. So that’s two abstentions explained.

[Lance]

My Tory MP was attending a funeral so did not vote. He was paired. So that’s two abstentions explained.

Most MPs are paired for abstentions due to there being a minority.

Only the Dear Leader is excluded from this Why Did Corbyn Miss A Vote Last Night? - Guido Fawkes

[BlasterBates]

Depends if they were paired.

If they were paired then they would cancel each other out and hence irrelevant. If a Tory or Labour MP felt strongly enough to rebel he would have turned up.

The argument that a vote didn't really count very much because there were abstensions really is rather weak. If a government can't get support it doesn't matter what reasons you come up with it doesn't bode well. If that amendment wasn't important then the Eurosceptics wouldn't be protesting.

[BlasterBates]

This is why the result of yesterday's vote is so significant:

Labour to back article 50 extension

[meridian]

This is why the result of yesterday's vote is so significant:

Labour to back article 50 extension

insisting Labour could negotiate “a better deal” with the EU.

He’s still in fairy land.

The EU might agree to an extension, but only if there are clear circumstances that differ from what is currently on offer.

Which means that Labour would need to openly campaign for remaining.

[BlasterBates]

He’s still in fairy land.

The EU might agree to an extension, but only if there are clear circumstances that differ from what is currently on offer.

Which means that Labour would need to openly campaign for remaining.

Not at all, Labour are pushing for Brino ++

May caves to Labour's demands

This actually revolves around the political declaration rather than the withdrawal, which in essence isn't going to change and therefore won't be contentious with the EU.

If they did extend article 50 it would almost certainly be to hold a second referendum or GE which the EU would probably accept.