No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[TAF4]

Dark days........

Well, that's it. I'm phuk'd!
I'm on the bench now and reach state retirement age around the same time as Hector will be demanding a six figure payment.
We appear to be helpless and without hope. Every time we embarrass them they move the goalposts and criminalise us.

[Fireship]

Hi all, apologies for not replying yesterday, like yourselves we were focused on the budget.

In answer to the questions raised, this is a production for Channel 4 and is bound by strict Ofcom regulations that ensure impartiality. Our intention is to represent a variety of opinions on important tax matters such as this.

To clarify, this is not paid for by HMRC and as an independent production company, we are interested in hearing your side of the story. As mentioned before, all information is off the record at this stage and doesn’t oblige you to take part.

Whilst taking part is a crazy idea I’m starting to think that there may be nothing to lose by giving an overview of the facts, i.e.

• HMRC’s lying to parliament to gain approval for S58(4) (rewriting Hansard)
• HMRC’s use of entrapment to deny our day in court
• Gauke’s (and other senior Tories) unwavering opposition whilst in opposition and their complete about face once elected.

etc, etc, etc….

There are plenty of facts which can't be denied.... Just a thought....

[warlord]

Whilst taking part is a crazy idea I’m starting to think that there may be nothing to lose by giving an overview of the facts, i.e.

• HMRC’s lying to parliament to gain approval for S58(4) (rewriting Hansard)
• HMRC’s use of entrapment to deny our day in court
• Gauke’s (and other senior Tories) unwavering opposition whilst in opposition and their complete about face once elected.

etc, etc, etc….

There are plenty of facts which can't be denied.... Just a thought....

The key thing being the scheme we used was legal up to 2008, then without warning the Labour Gov retrospectively taxed me back to 2002. Dec 20th 2008 owe nothing, Dec 21st 2008 you have 30 days to pay Hmrc 95k...

Yes its all hidden under my bed....if only.

[OnYourBikeGB]

Hi all, apologies for not replying yesterday, like yourselves we were focused on the budget.

In answer to the questions raised, this is a production for Channel 4 and is bound by strict Ofcom regulations that ensure impartiality. Our intention is to represent a variety of opinions on important tax matters such as this.

To clarify, this is not paid for by HMRC and as an independent production company, we are interested in hearing your side of the story. As mentioned before, all information is off the record at this stage and doesn’t oblige you to take part.

If you were really interested in a brave and valid piece of journalism, why not take a look at some of the measures that HMRC have used to stitch up the likes of ourselves, including deceiving Parliament. Have a look at how they marginalise a label groups of people to cast them in the worst possible light so they can't defend themselves. Who really are the 'scroungers' and the 'tax dodgers'? Why not take a look at the Cameron family wealth and where it came from and how it was passed on? Where's the morality there? What about HMRCs own use of offshore tax avoidance? Why don't you ask the questions that everyone else is scared to ask? I've been shafted by one wing of the administration, last thing any of us need is a docu-tainment that's more interested in the advertising slots for Coca-Cola than in the damage done to ordinary people. Read the history on these forums, believe me, there's a far more interesting documentary to be made on the abuse of power. It mightn't win you friends in high places, but it will start a much needed debate. Super TaxGuy isn't it.

[stuffed]

Interest - where do we stand?

To help us plan for what may be around the corner.
If all these latest changes by the criminal government are voted through Parliament, can they call through the Interest portion of the debt - Or will they be limited to the original exposure that was invented thanks to their time machine?

[d000hg]

So we're safe from demands for upfront payments, for the time being?

There are no demands, they just take it don't they?

And what about those who've been using loan based schemes since '08 'til now. We're going to be proper screwed without any trial or hearing whatsoever. May as well just hand my keys in to the mortgage lender now

I am struggling to get my head around this. Maybe I'm still in shock! But... HMRC will file to bankrupt each of us (ultimately) when we fail to pay a demand that alleges our tax return is incorrect, without them having been to the trouble of proving as such via the Tax Tribunal system. Furthermore, they will do this by treating each citizen one of a group.

Who would ever think this is possible in English law, let alone what's acceptable to ECHR??!! I just cannot believe what I'm reading and now writing.

I've never bought that argument. If you'd be bankrupt paying back the tax everyone else paid, you were living beyond your means IMO. If I used any scheme, all the money saved would go immediately into long-term savings not get spent!

It says something about our system when an aggressive retrospective tax-grab against SME businesses goes undebated and unreported while 1p off the price of beer hits the headlines. You couldn't make it up. I see we can cash in our pensions and pay tax on that too, a sneaky way of getting back the tax allowance and destined to hit the most desperate again and leave them with nothing. Despicable. The little rich boys in Government may not know the price of milk, but they certainly know how to make life unaffordable.

Stop trying to dress it up as an attack on SMEs, it's an attack on individuals who have used avoidance schemes. They were legal but in no way does trying to paint yourself as whiter than white pay off in this scenario.

1p on a pint of beer affects far more people, why would you expect national papers to make a big deal about something which hurts a tiny minority of people using niche schemes that their readers cannot understand? As already discussed, the average bloke wouldn't understand what's going on so reporting on it is not of interest, and papers write about things their readership care about.

[Old Greg]

Hi RNewton,
I don't speak for everyone of course, but may I politely encourage you to read through the past posts on this forum. You will quickly appreciate the heartbreak and devastation being visited upon us by HMRC malpractice and lies. We are just normal little folk (mostly software developers and the like) who sought a better way to trade independently when Gordon Brown introduced the uncertainty of IR35 to the otherwise ordinary world of limited companies. We are not employees, disguised or otherwise, we're just normal traders selling our services. Of course, efficient tax planning was of appeal, but equally, so was being free of the totally uncertainty of trading with the fear of IR35 rendering otherwise profitable undertakings to become insolvent by twist of an overnight taxman's knife.

So, may I please ask you to help ensure the context is fully covered as we are being totally ruined by HMRC. After all, who would fully disclose everything, have the return accepted then expect the government to introduce a law change and BACKDATE its applicability? Never cease to be shocked to the core about this, personally.

Thanks

At the risk of incurring official ire for straying into this thread, and I will not post again, it would also be nice to remember in this documentary all of those who were operating through normal Ltd structures and who have lost work through being undercut by competitors using a dodgy scheme.

[jbryce]

TV?

Hi all, apologies for not replying yesterday, like yourselves we were focused on the budget.

In answer to the questions raised, this is a production for Channel 4 and is bound by strict Ofcom regulations that ensure impartiality. Our intention is to represent a variety of opinions on important tax matters such as this.

To clarify, this is not paid for by HMRC and as an independent production company, we are interested in hearing your side of the story. As mentioned before, all information is off the record at this stage and doesn’t oblige you to take part.

No, you're interested in making entertainment. As for impartiality, when it comes to Tax Avoidance in the present climate you could paint HMRC as pure as the driven snow and their targets as baby eating monsters and you will receive no criticism.

HMRC have been slammed by a myriad of professional bodies over their new proposals, however no media orginisation has chosen to highlight these responses. You are afraid to be on the unpopular side of the argument.

Be honest, this is a chance for a feelgood kicking of perceived wealthy (ha ha) individuals. Will you be investigating IR35? No. Why? Because your company utilises many individuals who work legally and openly under that particular means of tax avoidance.

Are you a freelancer?

[jbryce]

Lacking in other areas?

At the risk of incurring official ire for straying into this thread, and I will not post again, it would also be nice to remember in this documentary all of those who were operating through normal Ltd structures and who have lost work through being undercut by competitors using a dodgy scheme.

>normal Ltd structures
Surely you should be using an Umbrella company rather than reducing your tax liability (that'll be avoidance) by working as a one man company.
I work through the a limited company as it is tax efficient- and I'm more than happy to talk to Channel 4 about that. It is avoidance of a sort.

>undercut by competitors using a dodgy scheme
Has anyone ever come across an instance of being undercut in this manner? In the four years that I've been a limited company this has never happened to me.
I generally don't get business because I'm not the best fit for the task.

[TalkingCheese]

At the risk of incurring official ire for straying into this thread, and I will not post again, it would also be nice to remember in this documentary all of those who were operating through normal Ltd structures and who have lost work through being undercut by competitors using a dodgy scheme.

What a terrible argument. In my experience it is much more down to skills and personality than a difference of, say, £50 a day. If you think that rate is set because people think "ooh, I am saving a few more quid a day so I can reduce my rate" you live in cloud cuckoo land.

The good news for you Old Greg is that since 2008 there have been many more of your competitors suffering hardship, stress etc affecting their day job to make you look better. And soon there will be a lot less contractors able to work which will help you out. You just want to hope they dont change the law on your "Ltd structure" retrospectively.