BN66 - Time to fight back: Continued

[DonkeyRhubarb]

DR, in bold....but where does it end then? You could say you must protect revenues by increasing the upper tax threshold to 100% and then retrospectively setting the starting band to £1 earnt with no personal tax allowance. That would also be protecting revenues and I think that is the key point.

Strictly speaking, that would be increasing tax revenues, not protecting them. Whether we agree with it or not, this will be one of their main arguments for justifying retrospection.

However, I would counter this argument by saying that they could just as easily have protected revenues by closing the loophole as soon as HMRC became aware of it. In fact, it is possible that retrospection may prove less effective, since a lot of people simply don't have the means to pay. Collecting tax retrospectively is also going to be very costly and time consuming, particularly if it involves bankruptcy in a lot of cases.

[smalldog]

Strictly speaking, that would be increasing tax revenues, not protecting them. Whether we agree with it or not, this will be one of their main arguments for justifying retrospection.

However, I would counter this argument by saying that they could just as easily have protected revenues by closing the loophole as soon as HMRC became aware of it. In fact, it is possible that retrospection may prove less effective, since a lot of people simply don't have the means to pay. Collecting the revenue retrospectively is going to be very costly and time consuming.

and in a lot of cases based on what people have said on this board futile

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Write to your Member of Parliament

Hi everybody - I know I keep saying this... but please do get in touch with your MP or MSP and MEP if you haven't done so already.

It will help us.

Ask them to get detailed answers to questions we have raised here not only on the human rights issues surrounding clause 55 - but on other things like the possibility Jane Kennedy knowingly or unknowingly misled (lied to?) the Finance Committee.

It only takes a minute and you can do it online here:
http://www.writetothem.com/

Here here. Even if you think this is a complete waste of time (which I don't), how much time are we talking about? Don't just whinge about this, do something about it.

You will find some sample letters here:

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...highlight=bn66

[poppy01]

and in a lot of cases based on what people have said on this board futile

A demand of the scale I expect, requiring instant payment, will flat out bankrupt me. I am in the fortunate (in these circumstances) position that my assets are worth less than my debts. My house recently went into -ve equity, I'm up to my eyes in Credit cards and loans. HMRc frankly wont be getting anything out of me whatever happens, unless they give me 10 years to pay.

oh and I cant borrow it... i've tried

[DonkeyRhubarb]

A demand of the scale I expect, requiring instant payment, will flat out bankrupt me. I am in the fortunate (in these circumstances) position that my assets are worth less than my debts. My house recently went into -ve equity, I'm up to my eyes in Credit cards and loans. HMRc frankly wont be getting anything out of me whatever happens, unless they give me 10 years to pay.

oh and I cant borrow it... i've tried

This is why it is perverse to use retrospection to collect taxes, particular in a country where very few people save. What's the point in trying to tax money that was earned (and spent) years ago?

HMRC's chance of collecting this is dimishing all the time, particularly as we are now entering a possibly severe and prolonged recession, coupled with falling asset values.

[smalldog]

This is why it is perverse to use retrospection to collect taxes, particular in a country where very few people save. What's the point in trying to tax money that was earned (and spent) years ago?

HMRC's chance of collecting this is dimishing all the time, particularly as we are now entering a possibly severe and prolonged recession, coupled with falling asset values.

and HMRC will have the information and access to look up peoples assets and probably have done so in some cases to see if they are able to pay. They have probably had a bit of a shock that their alleged fat cat property developers are largely self employed contractors, some with families and not having immense portfolios of assets and savings knocking around!!!

get a grip HMRC, you preverbaly pissing in the wind

the other irony being if they had brought action earlier, people who did have assets might have had the ability to pay prior to the property and financial crisis....dear oh dear HMRC bad timing!!!!

[MrX]

Closure Notices

I have not received a closure notice as yet. I see that some have and some haven't and it depends on your local office. Is it possible or worth while creating a poll where people that have received a closure notice can vote? This might be useful information for those that have not had one. My one is the South Essex Office at Southend-On-Sea. A useful link is:

http://search2.hmrc.gov.uk/kbroker/h...tor.jsp?type=1

[Ratican]

crystallised for tax purposes

They have probably had a bit of a shock that their alleged fat cat property developers are largely self employed contractors, some with families and not having immense portfolios of assets and savings knocking around!!!

There are "straight-forward" schemes suitable for many property developers to effectively get away with BN66 based on the probability that "property people are currently sitting on major unrealised losses which, by judicious use of accounting periods and structures, can now be crystallised for tax purposes and carried back."

If anybody is interested in these types of schemes PM me and I can put you in touch with a tax adviser who is promoting this.

That could be one reason that we haven't heard more from property developers.

[BrilloPad]

Was chatting to someone on the phone last night - you know who you are - and I have been convinced of the wisdom of keeping this debate public.

IMO its a good idea to start a new threads every 1000 posts or so - as to anyone who stumbles across the thread it can be daunting. Then first few posts could summarize old threads.

Comments?

[BrilloPad]

Brace yourselves.

HMRC have issued a letter to all clients. Re the scheme and missing accounts etc but also scarmongering over the Human Rights issue.

Expect everyone will get it.

I will put up a copy when I can.