Determined outside, then client stopped paying and start IR35 determination

[NotAllThere]

Not really - it's the same pot of money.

The change in status means that the agency needs to deduct all the tax before passing the rest to your company.

Shame. It would nice to think that given the contract was for £X outside, that it being inside, the agency or client would have to foot the ERNIC bill. Of course, they could just let the OP go.

[Paralytic]

They haven't determined my status yet. So I have to wait a little bit.

I also had quite a bit of trouble last year to find contracts, although it was getting easier recently. I'd want to get a new contract ASAP if I'm inside but I don't want to take the risk to be again without any money in for months...

I'd be looking for a new contract now and stating availability as immedidate. Since it looks like they're going to muck you about, i'd not give the agency or client any good grace here.

What is the notice period on your side of the contract? If its a week, you could be ill for that week (assuming you've found a new contract).

Make sure you continue to get timesheets signed, so you're due the money if you do walk. If they don't sign them, tools down.

[cwah]

I'd be looking for a new contract now and stating availability as immedidate. Since it looks like they're going to muck you about, i'd not give the agency or client any good grace here.

What is the notice period on your side of the contract? If its a week, you could be ill for that week (assuming you've found a new contract).

Make sure you continue to get timesheets signed, so you're due the money if you do walk. If they don't sign them, tools down.

They've put 1 month notice period........

I had a call with the recruiter, they told me all is fine and the payment delay is due to bank holiday and they had to do the determination now because they couldn't do it before being recruited........

Fingers crossed...

[northernladuk]

They've put 1 month notice period........

I had a call with the recruiter, they told me all is fine and the payment delay is due to bank holiday and they had to do the determination now because they couldn't do it before being recruited........

Fingers crossed...

I hope you ripped them a new one. They are taking the piss out of you. That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. Absolute bollocks. They recruit for a role but can't tell if you are inside or outside until you start? That's a disgrace. Everyone else can do it.

If they said it was outside on the advert but now admit they couldn't do the determination until you started then they were lying on the original advert. Advertising standards and APSCo would be interested in that. It's a fraudlent claim which could cost you a lot of money if it came back inside.

Gotta stamp this rubbish out as it affects all of us. I'd be writing to them to point out they are an utter shambles if I were you.

[eek]

I hope you ripped them a new one. They are taking the piss out of you. That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. Absolute bollocks. They recruit for a role but can't tell if you are inside or outside until you start? That's a disgrace. Everyone else can do it.

If they said it was outside on the advert but now admit they couldn't do the determination until you started then they were lying on the original advert. Advertising standards and APSCo would be interested in that. It's a fraudlent claim which could cost you a lot of money if it came back inside.

Gotta stamp this rubbish out as it affects all of us. I'd be writing to them to point out they are an utter shambles if I were you.

Hey that is exactly what IPSE campaigned for - determinations done after the worker has started as only then is the complete situation understandable.

[northernladuk]

Hey that is exactly what IPSE campaigned for - determinations done after the worker has started as only then is the complete situation understandable.

Wow. That's utter madness. How is that supposed to work for the person applying.

[eek]

Wow. That's utter madness. How is that supposed to work for the person applying.

Inside IR35 - obvious
Outside IR35 - we don't know if the contractor needs handholding / has a clue and we equally don't know if the PM is a micromanaging moron.

I'm sure the TheFaQQer can explain IPSE's reasoning - as I can understand why REC and end clients would want this situation but not a clue as to why contractors would want it.

[LondonManc]

Inside IR35 - obvious
Outside IR35 - we don't know if the contractor needs handholding / has a clue and we equally don't know if the PM is a micromanaging moron.

I'm sure the TheFaQQer can explain IPSE's reasoning - as I can understand why REC and end clients would want this situation but not a clue as to why contractors would want it.

I can understand it being indeterminate until after the interview, to see how good the actual candidates are - one might need more hand-holding, but be cheaper whereas the other one can self-manage and hit the ground running, completely unsupervised and would be outside. They could also be a returning contractor, known entity, minimal learning curve for inhouse systems and processes, etc.

[northernladuk]

I can understand it being indeterminate until after the interview, to see how good the actual candidates are - one might need more hand-holding, but be cheaper whereas the other one can self-manage and hit the ground running, completely unsupervised and would be outside. They could also be a returning contractor, known entity, minimal learning curve for inhouse systems and processes, etc.

I must admit I don't get what any of that has to do with the difference between a consultancy business and a bum on seat. Just being a returning contractor doesn't mean the engagement has changed. How good a contractor is has no bearing on the tax status and WP of a role either.
A client should know on what basis it wants to engage a resource on right from the start. Need appears, they decide if they want a bum on seat or supplier. They could even do the CEST to help them decide what risks they want to take and then they go ask the agent to find them an outside or inside resource.

Determining based on the individual contractor is ridiculous as that contractor doesn't determine the engagement and doing it after the contractor has got the gig is just rubbish for everyone concerned.

Didn't realise the process was so utterly ****ed up. I thought the do CEST on the role, then go resource for it.

[hobnob]

the critical point about payment is when the client pays the agent, not when the agent pays the contractor.
The agency is very likely paying up front.

The question then becomes, how do you know when you're officially "safe"? If the agency is willing to pay upfront, could you end up several months into a contract before it gets retconned as inside? Normally I'd say that the payment terms between the agency and the end client are none of my business, but this makes it a bit more tricky.