Contractor Accountants - Am I expecting too much?

[vwdan]

When I first came to dip my toe into this world, the prevailing advice was to go with a contract specialist. Fair enough, I signed up with SJD as I'd used their website a lot as part of my research. Over time I felt I wasn't getting huge value for money, but didn't really have any cause to complain. Eventually though, the accountant turnover was getting a bit annoying and I felt getting any real advice was like pulling blood from a stone with little in the way of, I dunno, answering any more than the minimum. Getting my only ever meeting felt like hard work, too. With everyone raving over Free Agent I thought I'd take the plunge and try something new.

So, just shy of three weeks ago I switched to somebody else recommended on here. They got me signed up with Free Agent, sent me an intro e-mail asking for some bits and...well, that's that. I had to set everything up in FA (Fair enough, I'm a big boy) and I didn't hear anything until last week when I'm told my assigned accountant has left.

I guess this is more of a rant than a question, TBH, but I just feel fed up. I know the model is stack em high and we get reasonably cheap accounting for that but even so.

I think my biggest thing is that I don't feel Ive ever had a proper 'what if' conversation with an accountant. My meeting with SJD was good, in fairness, but I got the distinct impression that they don't reaaaaly want you to go in and take up their time and it was only because I insisted that I got it. I don't expect proactive emails out Of The blue but I'd like a bit more thought when working together - ideas, plans etc from their own experience.

So, is it me? Am I just not straight forward contractory enough (I do do normal contrasts, but most has been ad hoc direct consultancy work and Plan B sales)? Or an I just expecting way too much for the cash we pay - I have no idea how much a local accountant would be.

[dingdong]

I'm not sure what "ideas and plans" you're expecting from your accountant. Contractor specialists like SJD, Nixon and Crunch offer great value for money and services that are suited to 95%+ of contractors who generally have pretty simple requirements. However their accountants will be responsible for lots of clients and are not going to offer you the sort of personalised experience you're expecting.

If you want detailed discussions on your own circumstances and ideas on things to try you'll have to pay more as you'll find out as soon as you try any local accountant. And I'd question whether any of that extra discussion would offer any additional value - especially in the new world where HMRC now clamp down on anything unusual that contractors might have done.

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

Two questions / observations?

First, did you tell the new accountants about your concerns with ex accountant and what you wanted?

Secondly, three weeks isn't that long. They may not have had hand over from ex accountant, and if this was recent, then December / January is a frustrating time in an accountants office when your time is focused on filing deadlines rather frustrating meaning work for non deadline clients has to wait. Personally I'd have given them an email prod and a bit more than three weeks.

Finally, some clients want very light touch, others want more interaction. It takes time to understand that relationship and bed it down.

[Maslins]

Secondly, three weeks isn't that long. They may not have had hand over from ex accountant, and if this was recent, then December / January is a frustrating time in an accountants office when your time is focused on filing deadlines rather frustrating meaning work for non deadline clients has to wait. Personally I'd have given them an email prod and a bit more than three weeks.

I'd agree with this, and wouldn't rush to ditch your current accountant.

The fact your assigned accountant has left so soon after you joined is unfortunate. For both clients and the owners of these accountancy firms, good staff sticking around long term is what we want...but real life can get in the way of that. People want to travel the world, take up that fancy job in London, leave to have kids etc...and there's nothing that can be done to stop that, nor should there be.

Obviously if 6 months in you've had 3+ different "account managers" (or whatever your firm calls them) some might question whether the firm is having troubles beyond just the normal.

In terms of the meeting, to be honest we gently discourage them, but do accept where people are particularly keen. Our communication is probably something like 95% email, 4% phone, 1% face to face, and most clients are happy with that. Whilst it does suit us, it tends to suit them too. Sure, some people are more "phone people", whilst others have been clients for 5+ years and I've never heard their voice...so there is an element of each to their own.

Doesn't sound like you're necessarily expecting too much, but perhaps have just been unfortunate with your second accountant. If they've been recommended on here (and not by a 1 post wonder!) then hopefully quite a few people are having a good experience with them, so you may just have been unlucky. I'd strongly recommend you give them absolute minimum a few months, realistically a year, and if you're still unhappy, then potentially move again.

[ChimpMaster]

I avoid the larger firms because I prefer a more personal level of service and someone who can be there long-term. I have used the same contractor-specialist-one-man-accountancy-firm for going on 7 years now. He has quite a number of clients but manages his time well and is always available to answer questions and run through scenarios with me (I have asked him about company cars, SPVs, liquidations, loans etc etc).

Over the years he has learned about my ways of working as I have grown into contracting. I rarely have to contact him nowadays because things run so smoothly. I provide him the data for VAT, accounts and the rest and he just runs with it; if any issues then he discusses with me.

At £80 odd a month I am very happy with the service. The only thing he doesn't do is my personal tax return, but he would at a small extra cost. But I have my property accountant do it, which makes more sense in my case.

[kaiser78]

I avoid the larger firms because I prefer a more personal level of service and someone who can be there long-term. I have used the same contractor-specialist-one-man-accountancy-firm for going on 7 years now. He has quite a number of clients but manages his time well and is always available to answer questions and run through scenarios with me (I have asked him about company cars, SPVs, liquidations, loans etc etc).

Over the years he has learned about my ways of working as I have grown into contracting. I rarely have to contact him nowadays because things run so smoothly. I provide him the data for VAT, accounts and the rest and he just runs with it; if any issues then he discusses with me.
At £80 odd a month I am very happy with the service. The only thing he doesn't do is my personal tax return, but he would at a small extra cost. But I have my property accountant do it, which makes more sense in my case.

Totally this and for these very reasons. The last paragraph doesn't apply to me, although not sure why you would need to have 2 separate accountants (not wishing to digress the thread here though).

[radish2008]

I've had a different experience with SJD, although I agree they are a tad expensive.

However, I balance this with:

1. I've never had a problem with them.
2. They have always been there when I've needed them.

They even have direct dial now - and it works.

As for advice I think you need to research what you need yourself and then query it - they're not running your business are they.

[ladymuck]

I speak to my accountant once a year, if at all. If I have questions, he's quick to respond by telephone or email, otherwise we swap a couple of emails at year end. Sometimes he'll call me if he has a query on the data I've supplied but, as he's gotten to know my methods over the past 5+ years, he does that less and less.

When I first started, I had a local accountant and I did ask more questions to better furnish my understanding. Nowadays, I do most of my own research and just validate any wild and crazy assumptions if I'm not sure.

A background in accounts (9 years in permie-land) has helped me massively and I would recommend all new LtdCo contractors without a good accounts understanding do a basic book-keeping course, or finance for non-financial managers, so they understand the mechanics of accounts and how to keep good records. You're a business owner now!

[northernladuk]

I'd agree with both the comments above. I was happy with SJD for many years and although they are a tad expensive it was worth it when I was happy with them. If you are happy with their service then it's worth the money I'd say. That said the FA option is well worth a look... but I digress.

And same with LadyMuck.. not the expensive but good bit... the bit about asking questions, learning and then being left to it. It is up to me to run my business and that includes learning enough what to ask. I don't think it is for the accountant to tell me what to do. It would be nice but I can see why it doesn't happen. Do a bit of research and then ask the question. If I get a concise answer with justification and numbers back in a reasonable time frame then I'm a happy bunny. That's about all I expect.

Does sound like the OP has had a bum time of it which seems to exasperate the issues to be fair though.

[MrMarkyMark]

I've had a different experience with SJD, although I agree they are a tad expensive.

However, I balance this with:

1. I've never had a problem with them.
2. They have always been there when I've needed them.

They even have direct dial now - and it works.

As for advice I think you need to research what you need yourself and then query it - they're not running your business are they.

Me too +1.

I have always had excellent service via SJD and I'm very happy with them.

My allocated accountant performed a number of different calcs to consider when taking dividend amounts, self assessment etc.
His recommendation definitely saved me around 4K tax, prior to the div changes, so I'm certainly not complaining.

They usually turn things around in a couple of hours too, the event of a query etc.