Reply to: Contractor Accountants - Am I expecting too much?

[Alan @ BroomeAffinity]

Maybe, maybe not. The person is a year and a bit out of high school so definitely inexperienced.

Age and guile beats youth and enthusiasm every time.

[alloverit]

You mean they are thick?

Maybe, maybe not. The person is a year and a bit out of high school so definitely inexperienced.

[SueEllen]

I'm in the same position with a well known on here FA accountant right now. Since starting with them they haven't gotten the basics right (put 2015 year end figures in opening balances in FA instead of 2016, botched my payroll, botched my payment on account updates). The accountant I had moved on and now I've got someone who as far as I can tell doesn't have a university or accounting qualification. If I weren't using FA and pretty clued up on my accounting I'd be in a world of pain year end... They're on notice for another quarter (FA makes a switch a lot less daunting).

You mean they are thick?

[alloverit]

I'm in the same position with a well known on here FA accountant right now. Since starting with them they haven't gotten the basics right (put 2015 year end figures in opening balances in FA instead of 2016, botched my payroll, botched my payment on account updates). The accountant I had moved on and now I've got someone who as far as I can tell doesn't have a university or accounting qualification. If I weren't using FA and pretty clued up on my accounting I'd be in a world of pain year end... They're on notice for another quarter (FA makes a switch a lot less daunting).

[vwdan]

I suspect you're all right - I was feeling very stroppy!

[ladymuck]

Which begs the question, why not go a little bit further do it all yourself (and save yourself a load of money in the process)?

You business accounts are a fundamental part of your business. If you care about you business, then like anything else in life that's worth doing, you do it well.

And if you want something done well, you need to do it yourself.

I do most of it myself but I do leave it to my accountant to do the final accounts and submissions to CoHo and HMRC, and the CT calculations. I like having an independent eye cast over the books at the end of the year while there's still opportunity to fix any mistakes before TPTB see them.

[northernladuk]

Which begs the question, why not go a little bit further do it all yourself (and save yourself a load of money in the process)?

You business accounts are a fundamental part of your business. If you care about you business, then like anything else in life that's worth doing, you do it well.

And if you want something done well, you need to do it yourself.

Save a load of money? £90 +VAT is not a lot of money compared to the fall out of getting it wrong. Even less because you may still have to pay for Freeagent or some accounting portal.

Absolutely but accounting and business are two different things. Complimentary but different.

That statement only works if you know what you are doing and have the time and effort to keep up with all the legislation and the so on. I am sure there is another saying about not doing stuff when you can't but I CBA to search for it.

[billybiro]

And same with LadyMuck.. not the expensive but good bit... the bit about asking questions, learning and then being left to it. It is up to me to run my business and that includes learning enough what to ask.

Which begs the question, why not go a little bit further do it all yourself (and save yourself a load of money in the process)?

You business accounts are a fundamental part of your business. If you care about you business, then like anything else in life that's worth doing, you do it well.

And if you want something done well, you need to do it yourself.

[MrMarkyMark]

I've had a different experience with SJD, although I agree they are a tad expensive.

However, I balance this with:

1. I've never had a problem with them.
2. They have always been there when I've needed them.

They even have direct dial now - and it works.

As for advice I think you need to research what you need yourself and then query it - they're not running your business are they.

Me too +1.

I have always had excellent service via SJD and I'm very happy with them.

My allocated accountant performed a number of different calcs to consider when taking dividend amounts, self assessment etc.
His recommendation definitely saved me around 4K tax, prior to the div changes, so I'm certainly not complaining.

They usually turn things around in a couple of hours too, the event of a query etc.

[northernladuk]

I'd agree with both the comments above. I was happy with SJD for many years and although they are a tad expensive it was worth it when I was happy with them. If you are happy with their service then it's worth the money I'd say. That said the FA option is well worth a look... but I digress.

And same with LadyMuck.. not the expensive but good bit... the bit about asking questions, learning and then being left to it. It is up to me to run my business and that includes learning enough what to ask. I don't think it is for the accountant to tell me what to do. It would be nice but I can see why it doesn't happen. Do a bit of research and then ask the question. If I get a concise answer with justification and numbers back in a reasonable time frame then I'm a happy bunny. That's about all I expect.

Does sound like the OP has had a bum time of it which seems to exasperate the issues to be fair though.

[ladymuck]

I speak to my accountant once a year, if at all. If I have questions, he's quick to respond by telephone or email, otherwise we swap a couple of emails at year end. Sometimes he'll call me if he has a query on the data I've supplied but, as he's gotten to know my methods over the past 5+ years, he does that less and less.

When I first started, I had a local accountant and I did ask more questions to better furnish my understanding. Nowadays, I do most of my own research and just validate any wild and crazy assumptions if I'm not sure.

A background in accounts (9 years in permie-land) has helped me massively and I would recommend all new LtdCo contractors without a good accounts understanding do a basic book-keeping course, or finance for non-financial managers, so they understand the mechanics of accounts and how to keep good records. You're a business owner now!

[radish2008]

I've had a different experience with SJD, although I agree they are a tad expensive.

However, I balance this with:

1. I've never had a problem with them.
2. They have always been there when I've needed them.

They even have direct dial now - and it works.

As for advice I think you need to research what you need yourself and then query it - they're not running your business are they.

[kaiser78]

I avoid the larger firms because I prefer a more personal level of service and someone who can be there long-term. I have used the same contractor-specialist-one-man-accountancy-firm for going on 7 years now. He has quite a number of clients but manages his time well and is always available to answer questions and run through scenarios with me (I have asked him about company cars, SPVs, liquidations, loans etc etc).

Over the years he has learned about my ways of working as I have grown into contracting. I rarely have to contact him nowadays because things run so smoothly. I provide him the data for VAT, accounts and the rest and he just runs with it; if any issues then he discusses with me.
At £80 odd a month I am very happy with the service. The only thing he doesn't do is my personal tax return, but he would at a small extra cost. But I have my property accountant do it, which makes more sense in my case.

Totally this and for these very reasons. The last paragraph doesn't apply to me, although not sure why you would need to have 2 separate accountants (not wishing to digress the thread here though).

[ChimpMaster]

I avoid the larger firms because I prefer a more personal level of service and someone who can be there long-term. I have used the same contractor-specialist-one-man-accountancy-firm for going on 7 years now. He has quite a number of clients but manages his time well and is always available to answer questions and run through scenarios with me (I have asked him about company cars, SPVs, liquidations, loans etc etc).

Over the years he has learned about my ways of working as I have grown into contracting. I rarely have to contact him nowadays because things run so smoothly. I provide him the data for VAT, accounts and the rest and he just runs with it; if any issues then he discusses with me.

At £80 odd a month I am very happy with the service. The only thing he doesn't do is my personal tax return, but he would at a small extra cost. But I have my property accountant do it, which makes more sense in my case.

[Maslins]

Secondly, three weeks isn't that long. They may not have had hand over from ex accountant, and if this was recent, then December / January is a frustrating time in an accountants office when your time is focused on filing deadlines rather frustrating meaning work for non deadline clients has to wait. Personally I'd have given them an email prod and a bit more than three weeks.

I'd agree with this, and wouldn't rush to ditch your current accountant.

The fact your assigned accountant has left so soon after you joined is unfortunate. For both clients and the owners of these accountancy firms, good staff sticking around long term is what we want...but real life can get in the way of that. People want to travel the world, take up that fancy job in London, leave to have kids etc...and there's nothing that can be done to stop that, nor should there be.

Obviously if 6 months in you've had 3+ different "account managers" (or whatever your firm calls them) some might question whether the firm is having troubles beyond just the normal.

In terms of the meeting, to be honest we gently discourage them, but do accept where people are particularly keen. Our communication is probably something like 95% email, 4% phone, 1% face to face, and most clients are happy with that. Whilst it does suit us, it tends to suit them too. Sure, some people are more "phone people", whilst others have been clients for 5+ years and I've never heard their voice...so there is an element of each to their own.

Doesn't sound like you're necessarily expecting too much, but perhaps have just been unfortunate with your second accountant. If they've been recommended on here (and not by a 1 post wonder!) then hopefully quite a few people are having a good experience with them, so you may just have been unlucky. I'd strongly recommend you give them absolute minimum a few months, realistically a year, and if you're still unhappy, then potentially move again.