Financial Spread betting, UK Tax, and HMRC. Advice please!

**malvolio** · 3 December 2016, 23:03

Originally posted by powerbook View Post

Hi

Thanks, I would be grateful for some advice please, but first some info.

1. I am employed by my Ltd company doing civil engineering 5 days a week, 8hrs a day. It is my first year as a Contractor and like they all say I wish I had made the leap sooner. Anyway I have no intention of giving up my civil engineering job.

2. Any financial spread betting that I do will be part time, now and then when I have time, and it will have nothing to do with my Ltd company or any other Ltd company for that matter.

3. I am not a professional trader, have never done it for a living. I have dabbled in the past but not since being a Contractor.

Now on to my questions.

If I have some winnings from financial spread betting, hard to call them profits, do I need to declare them to HRMC as part of my self assessment? I am not sure what the answer it as in the past I have never declared Grand National winnings or fruit machine winnings. However I accept this could be different, for one thing the sums involved are likely to be much larger, and secondly I accept it is not quite the same as horse racing. Or maybe it is legally, i.e. gambling is gambling.

And for arguments sake, say I do have to declare the winnings to HMRC, do HMRC take a look, wish me well and that's the end of it? Or do HMRC decide they are entitled to a slice?

Thanks!

So you've been betting for a while now and haven't figured out that gambling wins (and losses) are not liable for tax? Or even debt recovery? Hmmm...

**northernladuk** · 3 December 2016, 23:08

You didn't try spending 30 seconds on Google then? Appears not.

**powerbook** · 3 December 2016, 23:31

Yes of course I know SB does not attract tax, whether it is stamp duty, CGT, etc. In the past I could not have cared less what the legal position was or what HMRC said. I just pocketed the winnings end of.

These days I have to complete Self Assessment forms, I have a Ltd company, I have HMRC writing to me, and I seem to be forever sending them money by BACS. The joys of Contracting.

Anyway if you do not know that answer that is fine, perhaps someone else does. My main question is whether I have to declare the proceeds of financial spread betting to HMRC. Whatever is legally required/expected of me I will abide by. But if the requirement does not exist than I would rather not tell them.

**stek** · 3 December 2016, 23:33

You can't be taxed on wasting money!!

**malvolio** · 3 December 2016, 23:41

Originally posted by powerbook View Post

Yes of course I know SB does not attract tax, whether it is stamp duty, CGT, etc. In the past I could not have cared less what the legal position was or what HMRC said. I just pocketed the winnings end of.

These days I have to complete Self Assessment forms, I have a Ltd company, I have HMRC writing to me, and I seem to be forever sending them money by BACS. The joys of Contracting.

Anyway if you do not know that answer that is fine, perhaps someone else does. My main question is whether I have to declare the proceeds of financial spread betting to HMRC. Whatever is legally required/expected of me I will abide by. But if the requirement does not exist than I would rather not tell them.

I do know the answer. I also know, as you appear not to, that You and YourCo are separate legal persons (sic). Hence the slightly brief answer to your question, which is "No, you don't"

HTH. But think on what other rather more important questions you haven't realised you have to answer...

And also I have had no correspondence with HMRC other than quarterly RTI and VAT returns and annual CT returns, which are not particularly burdensome.

**powerbook** · 3 December 2016, 23:48

Thank you, you really are very clever. So much cleverer than me!

Cheers for the answer.

**northernladuk** · 4 December 2016, 01:11

Originally posted by stek View Post

You can't be taxed on wasting money!!

He's not wasting it if enjoyed the experience.

**ASB** · 4 December 2016, 08:22

It is unlikely to be viewed as a trade (when it would be taxable) in your case.

Losses would be recoverable by court action if needed by your provider.

Even if you made your entire living from it it would still be very unlikely to be a trade.

But, lets say you ran a chat room and traded live within it. Then there is an argument that those profits should be included in computing profits.

There have been cases in this area involving gamingclubs where proprietors have participated.

It is an area which is on the government's radar for a raid.

**cojak** · 4 December 2016, 09:17

Rather than giving hints and winks, how about coming straight out with the obvious bad news?

Financial Spread betting, UK Tax, and HMRC. Advice please!