Biz trips on expenses

[richy]

Hello

I'm doing some programming for a project I am developing from my home office in my ltd co (already making some sales).

I'm going to Berlin for a week, and will take laptop and work out of hotel. Can I put down the trip as expenses? eg the hotel and flight (and food)?

Background
Through my ltd co in UK I am working for a client, mostly on their site. Because contract over 2 years now I don't claim any expenses.

Cheers, richy

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Why are you going to Berlin? Is the trip wholly and exclusively for business purposes? If so, then yes. Otherwise no. If you are going for some other reason, the fact you will also be continuing to work whilst there will not make the trip an allowable expense either.

[richy]

Why are you going to Berlin? Is the trip wholly and exclusively for business purposes? If so, then yes. Otherwise no. If you are going for some other reason, the fact you will also be continuing to work whilst there will not make the trip an allowable expense either.

Hi. Thanks for your reply.

Going to Berlin for a change for scenery. I'll meet some tech startups at networking in evenings (does that count as client meetings?), programming in the day, and chill a bit. Pretty similar to what I do in London.

You're right a change of scenery is a kind of holiday.

I pick up work from tech networking from time to time, so it's not purely social.

I think it depends how I describe it. If I wrote it down as:

Relocate to Berlin for a week of work.
Berlin tech startup networking.
Continue programming work during the days from hotel.

Every business trip i've been on with my clients in USA always involved beers in evening, it was still business trip. Like when I used to go to tech conferences for a week in LA.

It is £250 flights, 400 hotel. So the tax saving is £120 by being able to put down as an expense (saving corporation tax)

Cheers, richy

[stek]

Hi. Thanks for your reply.

Going to Berlin for a change for scenery. I'll meet some tech startups at networking in evenings (does that count as client meetings?), programming in the day, and chill a bit. Pretty similar to what I do in London.

You're right a change of scenery is a kind of holiday.

I pick up work from tech networking from time to time, so it's not purely social.

I think it depends how I describe it. If I wrote it down as:

Relocate to Berlin for a week of work.
Berlin tech startup networking.
Continue programming work during the days from hotel.

Every business trip i've been on with my clients in USA always involved beers in evening, it was still business trip. Like when I used to go to tech conferences for a week in LA.

It is £250 flights, 400 hotel. So the tax saving is £120 by being able to put down as an expense (saving corporation tax)

Cheers, richy

So it's not a business expense is it?

[richy]

So it's not a business expense is it?

That's the debate. If going there to network and pick up new business clients it would be?

I'm certainly not sitting 6+ hours a day sipping cocktails by the pool. What I do in evening's after work (where ever) is my own choice right?

[SueEllen]

That's the debate. If going there to network and pick up new business clients it would be?

There is no debate.

You aren't going wholly and exclusively for business.

Anyway why don't you ask your accountant rather than a bunch of strangers on a forum?

Is it because your accountant like us will tell you a holiday even a working one isn't a business expense?

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

I think you've answered your own question. The trip is not wholly and exclusively for business purposes. You're going for a holiday. That you happen to do some business out there does not change anything. There is clearly duality of purpose.

If you were flying there for a pre-arranged meeting with a client and happened to have a few beers in the evening that's different - those beers are entirely incidental to the purpose of your visit. The purpose of your visit would still be wholly and exclusively for business.

In your case going out for a change of scenery is not.

[BlasterBates]

If the intention of the trip is to meet potential clients or partners and you're working, I don't see why you can't expense it.

It sounds reasonable, and the worst that could happen would be that HMRC look at it and refuse. If you stay over the weekend that would probably result in them turning it down, unless you were there for two weeks, so it was a reasonable thing to do. You should also have some evidence perhaps a contract offer. If you have nothing then I suspect they'll probably refuse it. Just saying you were there to network, won't wash.

I would advise putting this through your accountant.

[SteelyDan]

If the intention of the trip is to meet potential clients or partners and you're working, I don't see why you can't expense it.

It sounds reasonable, and the worst that could happen would be that HMRC look at it and refuse. If you stay over the weekend that would probably result in them turning it down, unless you were there for two weeks, so it was a reasonable thing to do. You should also have some evidence perhaps a contract offer. If you have nothing then I suspect they'll probably refuse it. Just saying you were there to network, won't wash.

I would advise putting this through your accountant.

I'd go with this...& as far as evidence is concerned, some email comms which show intent of meetings, etc.

[northernladuk]

I agree with what Blaster says but the OP has laid it out pretty clearly so there is little doubt.

Change of scenery , doing same as in London and many more quotes. The fact he never mentioned any of the extra work in the first post until he was pressed speaks volumes.

He is NOT going to get extra business, he is going out of personal choice and will be doing just what he does at home but in a nicer place. Pretty black and white, not wholly and exclusively.