Pension Auto Enrolment

[SimonMac]

So for spouses etc who are on the payroll but not directors, should be bring them on as directors or as they don't have contract of employments can we still opt out?

[eek]

So for spouses etc who are on the payroll but not directors, should be bring them on as directors or as they don't have contract of employments can we still opt out?

Based on the employees I think you are talking about you may need professional advice and I wouldn't be asking those questions here....

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Was it ever confirmed that company secretaries without contracts of employment also count for opting out, even if they receive a small salary? The letter only mentions directors.

[jamesbrown]

You can find detailed guidance here:

http://www.thepensionsregulator.gov....guidance-1.pdf

In particular, note sections 28 through 31 and section 35 on office holders. Employer duties apply to employees ("workers"); that is, to persons with an employment contract of service, not a contract for services (self-employed people) or office holders. However, there's an additional opt-out for the scenario where there's one employee that is also a director, as described above.

However, to muddy the waters w/r to IR35, see sections 15 through 19 on "personal service workers".

[DaveB]

So for spouses etc who are on the payroll but not directors, should be bring them on as directors or as they don't have contract of employments can we still opt out?

A spouse on the payroll who does meaningful work i.e. that justifies the salary paid will need to be enrolled, but that shouldnt be a bad thing under normal circumstances as it pays into a pension they will eventually get and as such be of long term benefit, assuming you dont split up. It also counts against CT so you do offset some of the cost that way.

If you have a spouce or other relations on the payroll and cant show they do meaningfull work, you may be heading into trouble if you start trying to muck about with changing staus etc.

[northernladuk]

A spouse on the payroll who does meaningful work i.e. that justifies the salary paid will need to be enrolled, but that shouldnt be a bad thing under normal circumstances as it pays into a pension they will eventually get and as such be of long term benefit, assuming you dont split up. It also counts against CT so you do offset some of the cost that way.

If you have a spouce or other relations on the payroll and cant show they do meaningfull work, you may be heading into trouble if you start trying to muck about with changing staus etc.

On the payroll or have a contract of employment? We tend to have the former but not the latter.

[Contreras]

On the payroll or have a contract of employment? We tend to have the former but not the latter.

Inverting the logic of Q1 posted above it loosely translates to

You cannot opt out if:
- more than one director has a contract of employment
- there is a non-director employee (irrespective of whether they have a contract of employment)

[jamesbrown]

Inverting the logic of Q1 posted above it loosely translates to

You cannot opt out if:
- more than one director has a contract of employment
- there is a non-director employee (irrespective of whether they have a contract of employment)

Again, in case anyone missed it, there's detailed guidance here about what constitutes a "worker" for the purposes of auto-enrolment:

http://www.thepensionsregulator.gov....guidance-1.pdf

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

You can find detailed guidance here:

http://www.thepensionsregulator.gov....guidance-1.pdf

In particular, note sections 28 through 31 and section 35 on office holders. Employer duties apply to employees ("workers"); that is, to persons with an employment contract of service, not a contract for services (self-employed people) or office holders. However, there's an additional opt-out for the scenario where there's one employee that is also a director, as described above.

However, to muddy the waters w/r to IR35, see sections 15 through 19 on "personal service workers".

So if its just yourself as a director and a spouse as a company secretary, both without a contract of employment, then neither are treated as workers for the purposes of auto-enrolment and therefore no opt-out is necessary?

It seems like that should be the case but if your spouse is company secretary *and* receives a salary for doing other work too then it seems they may be treated as a worker.

Lets assume for a minute that a spouse who is also a company secretary and receives a salary *is* within the scope of auto-enrollment, then isn't there also a salary threshold to consider first?

[Chris at CrunchAccounting]

Auto enrolment - spouses

Even if the spouse is paid under the £10k limited, there still needs to be a qualifying pension scheme open because they would be entitled to join if they wanted.

Remember for a spouse to be paid a salary they must be doing work for the company, therefore they are a 'worker'.

Lastly the contract of employment doesn't have to be written, it can verbal.