Coffee

[Chervil]

I've been trying to work out whether I can realistically claim my daily coffee and I wanted some opinions. Bear with me while I explain.

I'm set up with a limited company and currently have a contract that I'm comfortable is outside IR35 (the contract itself and the actual circumstances).

The contract is generally carried out rather near my home (<5 miles) and I'm very conservative with what I put through the business.

In particular I wouldn't claim lunch as although I read many conflicting opinions in my mind my current contract isn't forcing me to buy any food outside of the normal pattern of things (eg breakfast / evening meals being away).

One of my vices is a Starbucks style coffee most days and it actually adds up quite quickly! My real question is, can coffee be treat differently to food?

In my time as a regular employee a number of firms provided coffee/tea/etc for the employees without implications on benefits (ie P11d). Rightly or wrongly I always thought this was OK.

So, do people think my company can provide coffee for me without any realistic risk of HMRC getting shirty about it and is there any reason that buying a Starbucks wouldn't fall into this.

[tractor]

I've been trying to work out whether I can realistically claim my daily coffee and I wanted some opinions. Bear with me while I explain.

I'm set up with a limited company and currently have a contract that I'm comfortable is outside IR35 (the contract itself and the actual circumstances).

The contract is generally carried out rather near my home (<5 miles) and I'm very conservative with what I put through the business.

In particular I wouldn't claim lunch as although I read many conflicting opinions in my mind my current contract isn't forcing me to buy any food outside of the normal pattern of things (eg breakfast / evening meals being away).

One of my vices is a Starbucks style coffee most days and it actually adds up quite quickly! My real question is, can coffee be treat differently to food?

In my time as a regular employee a number of firms provided coffee/tea/etc for the employees without implications on benefits (ie P11d). Rightly or wrongly I always thought this was OK.

So, do people think my company can provide coffee for me without any realistic risk of HMRC getting shirty about it and is there any reason that buying a Starbucks wouldn't fall into this.

If your coffee performs calculations for you simply put it through as office equipment? If you don't tell HMRC it is edible, I won't.

[TheFaQQer]

In my time as a regular employee a number of firms provided coffee/tea/etc for the employees without implications on benefits (ie P11d). Rightly or wrongly I always thought this was OK.

So, do people think my company can provide coffee for me without any realistic risk of HMRC getting shirty about it and is there any reason that buying a Starbucks wouldn't fall into this.

You aren't comparing like with like - did you work for a company where the company regularly bought you a Starbucks coffee and claimed it as a business expense? No.

Providing your employees with tea and coffee facilities is an incidental benefit specifically mentioned in the HMRC manual (can't be bothered to quote it, but do a search). So, at your place of business, you can buy some coffee and sugar and the company can pay for it (not you buying and claiming it back) and you won't incur a benefit in kind charge.

Buying a Starbucks coffee and claiming it as an expense? Show me why it is wholly and exclusively for the company, or find an HMRC reference that explains why it's allowed.

[TheFaQQer]

OK, I can be bothered to quote it:

Tea and coffee
An employer may provide its employees with access in the workplace to tea, coffee or water from a cooling dispenser. If this refreshment is available generally to all employees, the benefit is exempt from charge (EIM21670). If the exemption does not apply, you should accept that these refreshments represent a trivial benefit.

Linky

[northernladuk]

Give us an idea of how much you spend on coffee and then tell us how much you will save putting it through the company. Am guessing it will be hundreds if not thousands of pounds won't it?

[Chervil]

"Trivial Benefit"... I see.

I can see the Starbucks thing might be the issue. If we assume £3/day * 200 then £600/year does make me wonder whether I should cope without!

If I was able to put it through I'd be looking at saving ~£250. I'm not sure I can say that's 'trivial' with an entirely straight face.

Thanks all.

[malvolio]

"Trivial Benefit"... I see.

I can see the Starbucks thing might be the issue. If we assume £3/day * 200 then £600/year does make me wonder whether I should cope without!

If I was able to put it through I'd be looking at saving ~£250. I'm not sure I can say that's 'trivial' with an entirely straight face.

Thanks all.

Jeez...

Sometimes I really really despair at our efforts to make HMG accept that we do contracting for a living and not as a not-too-subtle way to avoid paying every last penny in taxes. So thanks for your contribution to the cause.

[Chervil]

Dear god some of you are friendly.

I try not to take the piss with HMRC. I don't claim many things I know other contractors who do because I just think it isn't reasonable.

When I worked as an employee for others I usually had access to decent free coffee and it doesn't seem unreasonable to want to replicate that.

The only way to get that in the office I spend most days in is to buy a coffee. I simply wanted to work out if that fit the rules.

I've already stated that it seems too much to fit in with what HMRC state so get off your high horse.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

If you worked from your own office, or had a dedicated office building at home then sure, you could probably reasonably put a basic coffee maker and some tea and coffee through the books.

But funding your Starbucks habit is taking the piss a bit.

From what I can tell, there's no specific limits on subsistence claims when on business trips or working at a temporary workplace - you can claim any reasonable costs for food and drink while travelling. So ok that basis, a single coffee on the way to work or bought with lunch is unlikely to raise eyebrows IMO.

Having said that, I don't think I've ever bothered to keep receipts and claim for coffees. Lunch, yes, coffee no. I need to have lunch, I don't need to keep buying coffee. Especially as clients generally have coffee facilities that I'm welcome to use anyway.

I find it odd that you don't claim for lunch (which is fine btw as long as your aren't caught by the 24 month rule) but are happy to consider buying coffee and expensing it.

[malvolio]

Dear god some of you are friendly.

I try not to take the piss with HMRC. I don't claim many things I know other contractors who do because I just think it isn't reasonable.

When I worked as an employee for others I usually had access to decent free coffee and it doesn't seem unreasonable to want to replicate that.

The only way to get that in the office I spend most days in is to buy a coffee. I simply wanted to work out if that fit the rules.

I've already stated that it seems too much to fit in with what HMRC state so get off your high horse.

No I won't. It's not a good question, even you admit that. HMRC read these boards regularly (Hi Hector ), and claiming personal expenses against some mythical business justification doesn't really help our case. If you're claiming expenses for subsistence, which is fine, then you have to do it consistently. Picking bits out selectively is not really following the rules.