Reply to: Coffee

[d000hg]

In theory I could claim a % of the cleaner's cost to for my home office.

I agree about drinks - the point that working from home you might buy things you otherwise wouldn't aside - but wondered if there was a legal precedent. Out of sheer curiosity really.

As TCP mentioned, the more distinct your home office is from the main house, the better. If you have a "granny flat" you set aside as your office then fitting the kitchenette out 'feels' more legitimate than buying a new machine for your regular kitchen.

[northernladuk]

An employer has no requirement to offer tea/coffee facilities or allow people to bring in their own. I'm not even sure they have to offer water although I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case.

but it would be stupid of them not to bearing in mind (I would guess) every employer on earth provides beverages paid or not. As I said there is a common sense element here.

Sticking a kettle next to a box of PG-Tips and a tub of Nescafe instant is not the same as providing free access to a commercial bean2cup machine.

And again every case is different so a business decision needs to be made as to how much effort a company puts in to their work force. A free bean to cup solution or a god awful brown muck dispenser. It's all down to the business but at the end of the day providing something is a no brainer. A contractor buying an expensive coffee maker for home on the business is just ridiculous. Probably get away with it but ridiculous none the less. Clients have cleaners to make sure the floors and desks are clean. Does that mean WFH contractors can put their cleaners through the books?

It's an argument that a) isn't really worth having and b) will never get an answer cause the law just doesn't cover micro details like this.

Upshot is if you think its claimable do it, if you think it isn't don't. There is no wrong or right we can fall back on at this level. The OP's suggestion is wrong black and white however.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Though the original question does seem silly - you'd be buying the coffee if you were an employee - how does it work if a "proper" company does do a Starbucks run for employees once a day?

Someone quoted the rules about a place of business providing tea/coffee facilities for all employees. How does that work if you have a home office? Would you have to have supplies wholly for business use - e.g. a 2nd coffee machine only used during work hours - or like a laptop/mobile phone is personal use acceptable? Again it's not really worth it but I wondered if there was a definite answer. You might for instance buy one of those Nespresso machines, not solely for business use, but solely because of business use i.e. if you weren't working at home all day you'd never buy one.

If I had a dedicated office building at home (e.g. converted garage, garden studio) then I'd happily put a basic coffee machine through the company books to use in the office, as I would for other furniture including desks, a small cheap sofa perhaps and other normal office furniture. There's a clear delineation between home and work. The office building would be wholly and exclusively for business purposes although the cost of the building itself wouldn't go through the business (for numerous reasons that are off-topic to this thread).

If I was just working from a room in my house (as I currently am), then I wouldn't as it would seem quite silly. I'd just use my kitchen!

No idea where HMRC would draw the line but that's where I would.

[d000hg]

Surely a company offers tea/coffee facilities because it's easier than everyone having their own kettle etc. It's for convenience. You have a kettle at home so don't need any extra convenience. You get coffee facilities as a perk for being away from home. You live at home you don't need that extra perk.

An employer has no requirement to offer tea/coffee facilities or allow people to bring in their own. I'm not even sure they have to offer water although I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case.

Sticking a kettle next to a box of PG-Tips and a tub of Nescafe instant is not the same as providing free access to a commercial bean2cup machine.

[northernladuk]

Though the original question does seem silly - you'd be buying the coffee if you were an employee - how does it work if a "proper" company does do a Starbucks run for employees once a day?

Someone quoted the rules about a place of business providing tea/coffee facilities for all employees. How does that work if you have a home office? Would you have to have supplies wholly for business use - e.g. a 2nd coffee machine only used during work hours - or like a laptop/mobile phone is personal use acceptable? Again it's not really worth it but I wondered if there was a definite answer. You might for instance buy one of those Nespresso machines, not solely for business use, but solely because of business use i.e. if you weren't working at home all day you'd never buy one.

Surely a company offers tea/coffee facilities because it's easier than everyone having their own kettle etc. It's for convenience. You have a kettle at home so don't need any extra convenience. You get coffee facilities as a perk for being away from home. You live at home you don't need that extra perk.

There isn't a definite answer IMO as there is an element of common sense to be applied here. Once you start applying micro issues to these laws then there is no clear answer. The only way to find out is to get caught doing it and find out who has the biggest cojones when it came to a battle over it.

[d000hg]

Though the original question does seem silly - you'd be buying the coffee if you were an employee - how does it work if a "proper" company does do a Starbucks run for employees once a day?

Someone quoted the rules about a place of business providing tea/coffee facilities for all employees. How does that work if you have a home office? Would you have to have supplies wholly for business use - e.g. a 2nd coffee machine only used during work hours - or like a laptop/mobile phone is personal use acceptable? Again it's not really worth it but I wondered if there was a definite answer. You might for instance buy one of those Nespresso machines, not solely for business use, but solely because of business use i.e. if you weren't working at home all day you'd never buy one.

[Maslins]

It's like all this 'skinny, dark, choc choc, latte with a sprinkle of espresso, that'll be £8 quid sir' business.

For my mate it's always along the lines of:
"Coffee please",
"How do you like it?"
"Tall, skinny, and extra wet". (apparently extra wet means less froth...though I'm sure he doesn't really care about the amount of froth he gets).

To my mind, if you want to claim it, you can. If we're talking more morals then I personally don't think you should, but then I don't understand why working at a temporary workplace means having lunch is allowable, you'd eat regardless of how permanent your workplace was. For many of our clients, the slightly questionable nature of it combined with the hassle of keeping copies of potentially hundreds of receipts means they don't bother.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Fine. I get it. Thanks for the various advice.

I've been trying to do what seems reasonable to me. Having a coffee paid for when I've always had that seemed something that might be OK.

Not claiming mileage when it's so close also seemed to be the right thing to do. It is however a temporary place to work and a client site all being well with 24 month rule so people are right. It's black and white so I shall claim mileage.

Unfortunately you need to make sure that what you do seems reasonable to HMRC. Rules surrounding expenses, especially travel and subsistence, are complicated and, on occasion, contradictory so you need to make sure that you understand the basics - find yourself a good accountant that understands contracting - yes it costs but it could end up saving you money and hassle in the long run

[northernladuk]

No, it was probably Spearmint Rhino

Bet their benefits package is an eye opener

[tractor]

...

Was it Oracle?

No, it was probably Spearmint Rhino

[quackhandle]

Was it Oracle?

Haha, busted!

qh

[TheFaQQer]

So a while back as a permy the company took a few of us out for drinks and to a lap dancing club.

Was it Oracle?

[quackhandle]

So a while back as a permy the company took a few of us out for drinks and to a lap dancing club.

So now that I'm contracting...

qh

[jmo21]

I probably spend £4-5 on coffee a day. I don't claim it and I wouldn't even consider it. But I have often noticed there are a lot of people, all contractors I presume, that ask for a receipt whenever they get their coffee. I've always found it odd.

so say £4.50 every day for 46 weeks = £1035 you wouldn't be spending out of your small salary and dividends, or rather £1035 that could go in your savings, or throw at your mortgage.

Wonder how that would look over 10 years, reducing your mortgage by an extra £10,000 (pfft, who still has a mortgage the long time contractors scoff!) and saving a bunch of interest.

Corp tax that would be saved = £207 (over 10 years ~£2000)

Some people will see that as being worth the effort I guess.

[tractor]

...

I probably spend £4-5 on coffee a day. I don't claim it and I wouldn't even consider it. But I have often noticed there are a lot of people, all contractors I presume, that ask for a receipt whenever they get their coffee. I've always found it odd.

It's like all this 'skinny, dark, choc choc, latte with a sprinkle of espresso, that'll be £8 quid sir' business.

I'm quite happy with a cup of Gold Blend and two sugars thanks.