No Key Information Document - Your umbrella has a big problem

[cojak]

And so we come back to this :

Yep, the umbrella didn’t challenge the fudge the agent made to encourage sign-up. Umbrellas will have to make it absolutely crystal clear before sign-up (via the KID) that the contractor will only be getting 52% or whatever of that ‘£700pd’ rate.

[andymalory]

Clients are clearly talking about total amount they will pay.

Yes but they haven't thought about how this has changed in recent years for contractors. Sometimes, those client contacts won't care, but more often than not, they are barely aware and actually do want to know how this manifests.

Clients typically still just think that the total amount they pay will be just the day rate they are negotiating. They know the contractor will pay income tax and employee NICs but are generally not even aware that employer costs might be involved for the contractor too.

[eek]

Clients are clearly talking about total amount they will pay.

They may be doing that but that is where the whole problem kicks off.

A worker should be able (without any effort) to work out which offer of work pays them the most.

And you can't do that when what is being offered is a umbrella / womble rate (using Dave Chapman's term) which makes the employment costs that re being paid to cover the umbrella's cost look like money you (the work) could be receiving.

A big reason for the amount of tax avoidance in the contractor world is unrealistic rates being advertised followed by people joining schemes that bring them closer to the amount they thought they had been promised...

[lucyclarityumbrella]

But this really was a case I've been waiting to see for about 2 years and it settles a lot of points including who takes responsbility if the agency doesn't pass on the KID (for which the answer is Oh boy - if you are an umbrella make sure you include the KID alongside the paperwork).

KIDs sit under the AWR with the responsibility to provide this before any contract are signed, but in reality it doesn't happen as it should, the agencies don't all know how to produce them and some just send out generic ones which show very little. We provide a link to for our agencies to self generate one, but we won't engage with anyone without them seeing a breakdown. Maybe the umbrella regulation consultation might address the responsibility of this esp in light of that judgement.

[Bluenose]

Blimey.

[northernladuk]

You sure that's true? If an employee is partial blind and needs adaptive equipment to do their job (software/display etc), then surely that reasonable adjustment must be met by the employer? In reality it is currently the client that is fulfilling that obligation but that doesn't mean it's not actually the employer, umbrella, who is liable.

Adaptive yes but in answer you your general sweeping point no.

[Bluenose]

It looks like Experis just spammed the world with a key information document email. eek

panic mode engaged? key senior personnel on holiday and a junior in the legal dept thought it was a good idea?

Please note - I have never worked for Experis, I have not applied for a role either, as stated in the opening paragraph.

"We are sending you this email as you may be thinking about registering with us to help you find future work. You may have applied directly or we may have sourced your details via a Job Board or similar. Don't worry if you don't want to sign up - this is NOT a contractual document and you're not committing to anything.

This is simply a document that all agencies are required to give you to help you make an informed choice about whether or not you want to continue any registration process.

It shows what type of contractual relationship you would have with us in future if you did decide to proceed, so you can decide whether or not that's right for your circumstances.

It also includes a representative payslip showing the statutory deductions that would be taken.*

Of course, you may have been thinking about registering for permanent roles only - in which case, please ignore this email completely.

Finally, I would like to reassure you that should you not wish to proceed with any registration, your data will be deleted in line with our Data Retention Policy - you can find a copy of our Privacy Statement here : https://www.experis.co.uk/cookies-and-privacy/.

Regards,
The Experis Team (part of the ManpowerGroup)"

[cojak]

It does sound like a delayed knee-jerk reaction from someone who has only just read about the issue and recognised agency liability.

I suspect that it may be useless as it needs to be related to a specific contract with examples?

[ladymuck]

I'd reply with a SAR to find out where they got your details from

[Bluenose]

I suspect that it may be useless as it needs to be related to a specific contract with examples?

Yes, indeed. The PDF lists a hypothetical example rate with example brolly etc.

It would be nice to get a legal person involved with this thread at some point as the aftermath of that legal test case smoulders.

I am hoping for a group settlement or streamlined process where I don't have my name printed on a nationally read I.T website.