Well, here I am...

[eek]

Probs best to stick him on ignore then

Bit ironic - I think we've been on the phone today for over 2 hours.

Thanks for explaining who's behind the most narcissistic first post I've ever read on these boards (ie. the assumption that readers would know who he is).

I don't think Chris is having the greatest of weeks.

[eek]

When I said Chris’s week wasn’t going well that was before https://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc...companies.html appeared.

and before the tax avoidance schemes started making calls pretending to be a compliant umbrella firm using clone company details and location appropriate phone numbers.

the funniest thing is that the FCSA has done so much work convincing agencies that FCSA membership = due diligence done that the a lot of agencies won’t check whether the “umbrella” is the real firm.

[SimonMac]

I think you've scared him off, makes a big show of joining and then is never seen again

[malvolio]

I think you've scared him off, makes a big show of joining and then is never seen again

To be fair, apart from some veiled abuse, there's not really been much to answer to...

[jamesbrown]

To be fair, apart from some veiled abuse, there's not really been much to answer to...

To be fair, when your opening post contains "Yes, that Chris Bryce.", you are probably asking for a kicking.

[Fred Bloggs]

To be fair, when your opening post contains "Yes, that Chris Bryce.", you are probably asking for a kicking.

True to form would be my personal experience.

[eek]

To be fair, apart from some veiled abuse, there's not really been much to answer to...

Post 8 is completely unanswered - however, as both Chris and I know the answer to the question and it leaves Chris in a very awkward position I'm not surprised he stopped responding. (Hint post 6 isn't correct because Chris and Philip READ the code of conduct but didn't think about it)...

If you were watching F1 yesterday you would note that there was a comment where it was said Adrian Newry reads the Rulebook not to see what is in it but to see the gaps within it that you can play with...

[malvolio]

Post 8 is completely unanswered - however, as both Chris and I know the answer to the question and it leaves Chris in a very awkward position I'm not surprised he stopped responding. (Hint post 6 isn't correct because Chris and Philip READ the code of conduct but didn't think about it)...

If you were watching F1 yesterday you would note that there was a comment where it was said Adrian Newry reads the Rulebook not to see what is in it but to see the gaps within it that you can play with...

And to be fair, you haven't responded to the points raised further to post 8 either.

Anyway I may be out of date on the rules, but as I recall, permie holiday pay basically (there are minor exceptions) doesn't cross financial years without incurring a taxation issue. I can't see it would be any different for umbrella users. Is the problem in part that the umbrellas aren't telling their users that the user needs to do something about unused holiday pay in time for that to be effective, be that year end or termination?

[eek]

And to be fair, you haven't responded to the points raised further to post 8 either.

I did in post 11.

You then have post 12 where Chris is asking me to do his job for him when MUC fraud doesn't hurt contractors (once the umbrella submits an RTI file and the RTI file matches Agency Reporting - it's job done).

Anyway I may be out of date on the rules, but as I recall, permie holiday pay basically (there are minor exceptions) doesn't cross financial years without incurring a taxation issue. I can't see it would be any different for umbrella users. Is the problem in part that the umbrellas aren't telling their users that the user needs to do something about unused holiday pay in time for that to be effective, be that year end or termination?

Permanent pay works very differently - you are paid a fixed salary on a use it or lose it basis for holiday pay. A contractor gets a daily rate - if some of that isn't paid to the contractor they are losing out. Yep tax is a possible issue but only because income that isn't paid out to the contractor is taxable profit (so it makes sense not to hold on to it after holiday year end).

But think about it -

As an employee on a salary of £50,000 with 33 days holiday - if I only take 30 days holiday the employer shouldn't need to find extra money to pay for my 3 days of unused holiday - and if they are it's more overtime than anything else.

As a contractor on £500 a day - the umbrella deducts 12.07% to cover holiday pay. it's a reverse calculation so comes to £47 or so. That £47 comes from work the contractor does so should really be coming back to the contractor at some point...

And the problem is a simple one - on November 1st 2020 - JSA treated all unclaimed holiday pay as JSA income / profit. FCSA's viewpoint of that is that it's historic, no breach of their rules.

The question then becomes - the new code of conduct applies from October 2021. So what did JSA / Workwell do on 1st November 2021?

[malvolio]

I did in post 11.

You then have post 12 where Chris is asking me to do his job for him when MUC fraud doesn't hurt contractors (once the umbrella submits an RTI file and the RTI file matches Agency Reporting - it's job done).




Permanent pay works very differently - you are paid a fixed salary on a use it or lose it basis for holiday pay. A contractor gets a daily rate - if some of that isn't paid to the contractor they are losing out. Yep tax is a possible issue but only because income that isn't paid out to the contractor is taxable profit (so it makes sense not to hold on to it after holiday year end).

But think about it -

As an employee on a salary of £50,000 with 33 days holiday - if I only take 30 days holiday the employer shouldn't need to find extra money to pay for my 3 days of unused holiday - and if they are it's more overtime than anything else.

As a contractor on £500 a day - the umbrella deducts 12.07% to cover holiday pay. it's a reverse calculation so comes to £47 or so. That £47 comes from work the contractor does so should really be coming back to the contractor at some point...

And the problem is a simple one - on November 1st 2020 - JSA treated all unclaimed holiday pay as JSA income / profit. FCSA's viewpoint of that is that it's historic, no breach of their rules.

The question then becomes - the new code of conduct applies from October 2021. So what did JSA / Workwell do on 1st November 2021?

OK, fair enough. Let's await the (or an) answer with interest!