Reply to: Recruiter Insisting On Using Own Umbrella Company.

[NotAllThere]

So I lost that gig and started another one. This new gig is outside IR35. I usually work in local govt so this is a first for me. I've got two quotes from two umbrellas and my take home differs by about £300 weekly.

I'd still follow malvolio's advice

Talk to the client? "Would love to join but your agent is making it impossible to do so."

But say rather "I would have loved to join you, but your agent made it impossible".

With an outside IR35 gig, why go brolly?m

[eek]

How have people lost money by not understanding the holiday umbrella rules?

Because there is a lot of money to be made by finding means and ways of avoiding paying for it. So much so I've seen "Umbrellas" with clauses where a percentage of unclaimed holiday pay is paid back to the agency.

[malvolio]

Have they given you detailed breakdowns? The quotes should be broadly the same if you're not asking for anything fancy. The only difference should be their fee.

One brolly might be giving you an allowance for expenses if they're happy your gig is truly outside but, IIRC, very few do that.

Such a shame to put an outside gig through a brolly.

Might also be a good idea to compare your payslips to your personal tax account at HMRC.gov.uk and ensure they agree. £300 is worryingly large difference...

[ladymuck]

So I lost that gig and started another one. This new gig is outside IR35. I usually work in local govt so this is a first for me. I've got two quotes from two umbrellas and my take home differs by about £300 weekly.

Have they given you detailed breakdowns? The quotes should be broadly the same if you're not asking for anything fancy. The only difference should be their fee.

One brolly might be giving you an allowance for expenses if they're happy your gig is truly outside but, IIRC, very few do that.

Such a shame to put an outside gig through a brolly.

[ladymuck]

How have people lost money by not understanding the holiday umbrella rules?

Because they don't read the small print and don't realise that they may have to specifically claim back the deductions taken against holiday pay, sometimes within a certain time frame, when the wind is blowing east on a full moon.

Just make sure that whatever brolly you choose you understand what their process is.

[Delectable]

So I lost that gig and started another one. This new gig is outside IR35. I usually work in local govt so this is a first for me. I've got two quotes from two umbrellas and my take home differs by about £300 weekly.

[Delectable]

eek's point about holiday pay is a good one - too many people have lost money because they didn't understand the umbrella's rules about that.

How have people lost money by not understanding the holiday umbrella rules?

[lucyclarityumbrella]

Glad to see you make an impression

[eek]

Maybe, but I wouldn’t trust any company with only £1 on their balance sheet.

Everyone has to start somewhere..

and remember what my new day job is…

oh and the new FCSA chair (don’t think he’s announced yet) wasn’t happy when he discovered I’m still around to pull him up on things

[cojak]

I would go the opposite way - Big Fish use Octopaye which I would trust rather than than JSA's internal systems - one of the multiple checks I have is how is payroll run and if it's a 3rd party supplier I would trust it way more than any internal system.

end of the day - I would pick the firm that:

1) pays holiday pay in advance as the agency pays the umbrella
2) does your pension how you want
3) the one you like more on the phone.

Maybe, but I wouldn’t trust any company with only £1 on their balance sheet.

[ladymuck]

eek's point about holiday pay is a good one - too many people have lost money because they didn't understand the umbrella's rules about that.

[eek]

I would go the opposite way - Big Fish use Octopaye which I would trust rather than than JSA's internal systems - one of the multiple checks I have is how is payroll run and if it's a 3rd party supplier I would trust it way more than any internal system.

end of the day - I would pick the firm that:

1) uses a third party software package that is used by multiple firms (JustAccounts, Octopaye, Flexr, can't remember the others offhand)
2) pays holiday pay in advance as the agency pays the umbrella
3) does your pension how you want
4) the one you like more on the phone.

[cojak]

Looking at the company accounts I would go with JSA I you want to accept the contract. Big Fish only has £1 on their accounts sheet until they put in their accounts at the end of the month.

[ladymuck]

It's not illegal for a company to have a preferred supplier list, which is what they're enforcing here. The way they're going about it is pretty nasty though.

If you want to take the gig, you should do due diligence on both and pick the one that is the least worst. If you can afford to walk away, that's your only other option sadly.

[eek]

Talk to the client? "Would love to join but your agent is making it impossible to do so."

Not going to work - as the agency will just say it’s not worth the risk.