Reply to: Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[GregRickshaw]

Any others from CK who have access to the dispute portal, posed the question as to why there is nothing but tumble weed in the offices of CK?

[Hareforthebear]

That's what you took from the takeover and the disappearance of the directors?

Many years ago a video emerged of the packaged product Boox were selling. Even a blind man could see there was massive assistance. I don't believe either to be MSC but that's it. Just do some research and make your own mind up is my suggestion at this point.

I have. Was curious as to the basis of your assertion given no-one else, HMRC included, has a scooby.

[GregRickshaw]

In what way are they “certainly much less MSC than boox”?

That's what you took from the takeover and the disappearance of the directors?

Many years ago a video emerged of the packaged product Boox were selling. Even a blind man could see there was massive assistance. I don't believe either to be MSC but that's it. Just do some research and make your own mind up is my suggestion at this point.

[Hareforthebear]

CK seemed so well organised on this orignally and certainly much less MSC than Boox.

In what way are they “certainly much less MSC than boox”?

[GregRickshaw]

Well well well....

Not sure about all of this but it seems CK have been 'bought out' by Omnia Payroll Limited, worth doing a companies search for those involved... just saying. Not judging at this stage but the vernacular around their services is a little 'eyebrow raising'...

Now surprisingly the directors of CK have suddenly become very difficult to contact, the updates on the court case, despite tons of stuff going on, are strangely silent.

CK seemed so well organised on this orignally and certainly much less MSC than Boox. However as the defence of Boox gathers strength the people involved defending Boox becomes stronger, I do wonder if CK have cut and run...

Glad I contributed nothing to their £1,000,000+ defence appeal.

Especially now when I see how well organised DK and his team are and so far asked for less than £100k between 300 people.

[GregRickshaw]

Post linked to in main article!!!

But seriously, David if you do read these, I am happy to provide the full correspondence to the MP and the reply from HMRC.

I also have direct correspondence with HMRC on a FOI request on the MSC debacle to which they basically respond..."we don't have to tell you anything".

He really wanted this if your MP is a member of the PAC, all MP help is good but the PAC seems to be the desired.

I have distanced myself from this a long time ago and paid little attention, resigned to ultimately losing, resigned to never seeing my first two years money back, I have spent too much money on chasing my POA money but anyway....

Reading this and his (DK's) recent statement, I think they (the legal teams) seem to be going at this in the 'what a mess' kind of a way, which worked for our friend Carbon Six recently and is not a bad move, I just hope for everyone's sake that's not their main 'defence' now.

I am also seeing a little bit of 'ambulance chasing' creeping in.

[geekergosum]

New article by David Kirk on the main news page today...

https://www.contractoruk.com/news/hm...t-mps-pressure

Post linked to in main article!!!

But seriously, David if you do read these, I am happy to provide the full correspondence to the MP and the reply from HMRC.

I also have direct correspondence with HMRC on a FOI request on the MSC debacle to which they basically respond..."we don't have to tell you anything".

[rdw1970]

New article by David Kirk on the main news page today...

https://www.contractoruk.com/news/hm...t-mps-pressure

[Ketto]

"He can still make a payment on account if he wishes to avoid any further interest accruing whilst he waits for the outcome of his appeals <sometime in the 2030s>."

[geekergosum]

I wrote to my MP at the beginning of the year, and they have contacted HMRC...finally HMRC came back and gave the following response:

Given the impact that XXXXXX has detailed, we have worked closely with our extra support team during the case and pointed him towards the help available. If there is anything else we can do to support him further, he should tell us so that we may put in place any reasonable adjustments. He can find information about the additional support which is available at www.gov.uk/get-help-hmrc-extra-support.

The law requires us to charge interest. We calculate and charge interest daily from the date the tax becomes due until customers pay it in full. We cannot alter or set aside the interest charges, and it will continue to accrue while waiting for the appeal to take place.

We also told Mr XXXXXXX that he could make a payment on account to limit the interest charged if the MSC rules were deemed to apply. He can still make a payment on account if he wishes to avoid any further interest accruing whilst he waits for the outcome of his appeals.

If Mr XXXXXXX disagrees with the interest charges, he can make an objection once he has paid all the tax due.

We know that facing a large tax bill can be stressful. We have a range of options to help customers who are struggling to pay their Corporation Tax liabilities in full, including affordable time to pay arrangements. Mr XXXXXXX can find more information about this at: http://www.gov.uk/guidance/find-out-...ay-arrangement.

So...if you are stressed about interest and paying this bill...the answer is...pay the bill.

and the extra support is ... help to pay your bill.

I did get an apology for them missing deadlines or not responsive on time, as well as not fully correct details. But that was all...but if we are late, or incorrect, the tax payer is punished.

Thank God for anti-depressants!

[rdw1970]

In case anyone missed this on the latest news page.....

https://www.contractoruk.com/news/sh...eemed-shocking

[howbigmassive]

Did you POA?

No, I did not POA.

[jamesbrown]

Hi, please can you confirm that pension contributions are not included in the DEP calculation? I am being asked to provide them by HMRC.
Also what is the calculation to determine if I can be excluded using condition 61B(1)(b)?
Many thanks...

The calculation is more than 50% of the total turnover generated by the services and that includes all forms of payment or money's worth (salary, dividends, pension contributions etc.). However, allowable pension contributions will not form part of any tax due, they will be deducted from the total when calculating the tax due under the DEP.

[GregRickshaw]

For those following the recent developments, my company Carbon Six has been involved in a protracted appeal against HMRC.

The Tribunal’s judgment has now been released. In it, HMRC’s conduct throughout the appeal was described by the Judge as ‘shambolic and haphazard’. Paragraphs 100 and 122 are particularly illuminating regarding the Revenue’s approach to these proceedings.

HMRC failed to meet the deadlines and directives issued by the Tribunal. Despite a formal warning that they would be barred if they did not comply, they subsequently failed to meet a second ‘Unless Order’.

HMRC applied to set aside the barring at a hearing on 14 January 2026. However, the Tribunal found that their application and skeleton argument contained incorrect and/or misleading statements (paragraph 122). Their excuses for the procedural failures were deemed ‘bad’ reasons, and the bar was upheld. As HMRC had failed to issue a Statement of Case, the Judge summarily allowed my appeal.

While the merits of the underlying tax case were not fully assessed due to the barring, the judgment highlights where HMRC’s conduct fell short of their duty to the court. Specifically:

• HMRC attempted to rely on superseded law (citing the Upper Tribunal decision in BPP), despite that logic being overturned or superseded by the Court of Appeal and Supreme Court.
• HMRC’s arguments—that a barring would lead to an ‘inequality of arms’ or a ‘windfall’ for the taxpayer—were specifically rejected as they ignored the binding precedents set by the higher courts.

I hope this provides some clarity for other contractors dealing with similar procedural issues. The case serves as a reminder that the Revenue is as bound by the Tribunal’s directives as any taxpayer.

Did you POA?

[sbs3]

I've managed to settle my case with the HMRC, I thought I'd share my experience.

My first two years were removed from the investigation as I didn't pay myself much from the business, which meant I didn't meet either 61B(1)(b) or 61B(1)(c). Only the final year came under consideration.

HMRC consider pension contributions to be 'payments to the individual' for the purposes of meeting 61B(1)(b) but do not include these contributions in the DEP calculation as they do not consider them as 'general earnings from employment'. Allowable business expenses were also deductible from the DEP total.

Once the DEP calculation was complete, I had to submit separate claims for corporation and dividend tax overpayments. However, I didn't have to pay the outstanding bill and wait for separate overpayment refunds, rather the overpayments were included in the calculation for the final outstanding payment.

No penalties were applied.

During the tax year in question my total income didn't exceed the higher tax rate threshold, I didn't split dividends with anyone else and I made significant pension contributions. So my personal circumstances meant that the overpayments pretty much wiped out the total outstanding tax and NI bill.

Being honest, once I made it known to the HMRC that I would be willing to come to a figure and settle, the individual officer I dealt with was quite reasonable and we resolved the matter fairly amicably.

Hi, please can you confirm that pension contributions are not included in the DEP calculation? I am being asked to provide them by HMRC.
Also what is the calculation to determine if I can be excluded using condition 61B(1)(b)?
Many thanks...