Reply to: Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[Fuzzynavel]

Hey all,

I am a former Boox customer. Now with a different accountant.

I received a notice of decision saying that my company is liable on March 15. I have only just opened the letter today thus making any potential appeal I may send late. I was not checking the postbox as originally all the initial appeals and responses were going to and from Boox and it was just not on my radar. I am clearly not an MSC and have emails that should show that.

I am freaking out a bit by the face that I am late to make another appeal and what I should be doing as I am appealing on my own without Boox. Any advice would be appreciated.

I found HMRC to be quite helpful at the individual staff member level and have had my case stood over. I followed the instructions on the letter and sent in paperwork to support my case with a detailed letter regarding the MSC legislation and how it didn't affect me. I also sent the letter recorded so that they would have to sign for delivery.

I then followed up daily by email esimscteam@HMRC.gov.uk; michael.mcdonald@hmrc.gov.uk (these emails are on the letter so not Doxxing anyone)

I also phoned them every couple of days and spent hours on the phone in queues

It took a few weeks but eventually I got a reply.

[dpw123]

Hey all,

I am a former Boox customer. Now with a different accountant.

I received a notice of decision saying that my company is liable on March 15. I have only just opened the letter today thus making any potential appeal I may send late. I was not checking the postbox as originally all the initial appeals and responses were going to and from Boox and it was just not on my radar. I am clearly not an MSC and have emails that should show that.

I am freaking out a bit by the face that I am late to make another appeal and what I should be doing as I am appealing on my own without Boox. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Guy Incognito]

Can anyone share how long did it take to get a response from HMRC after submitting an appeal?

Weeks - they did them in alphabetical order by company name.

[ritwolf]

Can anyone share how long did it take to get a response from HMRC after submitting an appeal?

[jamesbrown]

Might be a while off that yet as I don’t think a FTT sets case law. I am a lay person and could be wrong, of course.

Correct, no case law until UTTT and above, but the first one that gets to FTTT would presumably reach UTTT first too, assuming the funds are there (CK are making those noises) and there are still points to dispute (there will be, either way).

[GregRickshaw]

I think you are correct, but CK have money for at least the first two appeals as I understand things.

At least that and more. I am not sure though if Ck and Boox cases are the same anymore, after the posting a few pages back we saw from a new Boox client.
Seems at this stage just CK going to FTT (next year expected) and the test cases are being agreed over the next few weeks.

[Guy Incognito]

Might be a while off that yet as I don’t think a FTT sets case law. I am a lay person and could be wrong, of course.

I think you are correct, but CK have money for at least the first two appeals as I understand things.

[GregRickshaw]

Those of us with Boox are also pleased. CK can set case law that helps us.

Be good if Boox had helped out in the first place

[Fred Bloggs]

Those of us with Boox are also pleased. CK can set case law that helps us.

Might be a while off that yet as I don’t think a FTT sets case law. I am a lay person and could be wrong, of course.

[Guy Incognito]

Those of you with CK will be pleased to know hostilities with the enemy are about to commence with some ammo in the guns.

Those of us with Boox are also pleased. CK can set case law that helps us.

[GregRickshaw]

Those of you with CK will be pleased to know hostilities with the enemy are about to commence with some ammo in the guns.

[ritwolf]

A little update for those wondering if Chapter 10 ("new IR35") could be applied, which would take precedence over Chapter 9 (MSC):

As per my reading of legislation and conversation with tax specialists, it is unlikely this happens as it would shift liability towards end clients or intermediary agencies... a whole new fight for HMRC.

[jamesbrown]

If HMRC are not replying to letters requesting information in good time, I would assume that this would go toward demonstrating that they are incompetent, overstretched, and careless (which they are). I think most reasonable people would also find the demands, followed by no direct communication regarding appeals to be a display of negligence. Especially when there are many cases with processing errors.

They aren’t presenting their case in the court of public opinion, it’s a FTTT, where the outcome depends on the facts. The cat analogy above is a good one. You should focus on the facts in your favour and forget about imposing fake deadlines on HMRC to respond. They will respond when they need to, which is now the FTTT.

[ExLuninKiwi]

If HMRC are not replying to letters requesting information in good time, I would assume that this would go toward demonstrating that they are incompetent, overstretched, and careless (which they are). I think most reasonable people would also find the demands, followed by no direct communication regarding appeals to be a display of negligence. Especially when there are many cases with processing errors.

[jamesbrown]

I don’t think they’ll reply by the deadline, but it will build a case for ineptitude by HMRC.

The only deadline that matters is the one they've already met, I'm afraid.