Reply to: Get your brit card

[SueEllen]

Fair enough, and I'm also quite careful about privacy and apps.

Having said that I'm pretty sure that those shouting loudest about the tyranny of ID checks know little about those issues and care even less.

Scope creep!

[Smartie]

Certainly many people hang out in the convenience corner of the security - privicy - convenience triangle.

Many of us choose carefully which Apps to use; some of us still prefer websites for financial transactions.

ps - I don’t use Google!

Fair enough, and I'm also quite careful about privacy and apps.

Having said that I'm pretty sure that those shouting loudest about the tyranny of ID checks know little about those issues and care even less.

[SueEllen]

I think the average take-away, restaurant or builder's gang would be easily fooled by a Photoshop fake.

Apparently builders don't care.

There are a few ID schemes already for them and there is no enforcement.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I don't have an issue with an ID card in principle. Because the UK has always shied away from them, people are forced to use other documents as proof of identity and some can be very expensive to obtain......

For once, I think Kemi said the right thing: it's just a statement to distract from Andy Burnham's shenanigans.

Ironic since Burnham was such a good boy supporting the last ID scheme but is apparently opposed to this one.

[Protagoras]

This just isn't an argument anymore. Google and a huge number of other companies have been doing this for years and people have been pretty happy to let them get away with it, in exchange for convenient services.
If the argument is that we should trust Google more than the UK state then lol.

Certainly many people hang out in the convenience corner of the security - privicy - convenience triangle.

Many of us choose carefully which Apps to use; some of us still prefer websites for financial transactions.

ps - I don’t use Google!

[Smartie]

The Smartphone App would want access to other things on the phone, like contacts. Then Gov could obtain data to connect people and support state surveillance of which there's already too much.

I can't see much in the way of public acceptance of anything other than a physical card. And even with that, I'd expect wide -scale protests. I really don't think Gov appreciates the extent to which the population has had enough.

This just isn't an argument anymore. Google and a huge number of other companies have been doing this for years and people have been pretty happy to let them get away with it, in exchange for convenient services.
If the argument is that we should trust Google more than the UK state then lol.

[willendure]

The Smartphone App would want access to other things on the phone, like contacts. Then Gov could obtain data to connect people and support state surveillance of which there's already too much.

I can't see much in the way of public acceptance of anything other than a physical card. And even with that, I'd expect wide -scale protests. I really don't think Gov appreciates the extent to which the population has had enough.

Thats my bet too, Starmer will get told to fek off just like last time they tried this. He is also less popular than the last one that tried it, so no way is he going to last long enough to pull it off.

[willendure]

What with all the smartphone thefts, is holding your ID on your phone really all that sensible?

Yes, I deleted my banking app and anything else that I would not want anyone else to have access to. Barclays can do bank login through their app, or you can still get the old pocket calculate style passcode devices that you put your bank card into to generate a code and I am using that again. People are getting their phone nicked and losing their life savings, its ridiculous.

[Protagoras]

What with all the smartphone thefts, is holding your ID on your phone really all that sensible?

The Smartphone App would want access to other things on the phone, like contacts. Then Gov could obtain data to connect people and support state surveillance of which there's already too much.

I can't see much in the way of public acceptance of anything other than a physical card. And even with that, I'd expect wide -scale protests. I really don't think Gov appreciates the extent to which the population has had enough.

[ladymuck]

What with all the smartphone thefts, is holding your ID on your phone really all that sensible?

[NotAllThere]

you can get an Android phone for £69:...
You can then combine that with a £10 "pay as you go" SIM, i.e. no monthly contract,..

On top of the cost of getting your ID of course.

I've lived with an ID card now for over twenty years, it's just really handy to have one thing to prove your identity. However, unlike UK goverment plans, here you can be required to prove your identity, though you don't have to carry your id with you.

The UK government has said anyone without a smartphone will be able to have a physical card which will be free.
https://news.sky.com/story/what-is-a...-safe-13438549

Weirdly, the above article says you won't be required to show your card. So looks li

[Paddy]

I think the average take-away, restaurant or builder's gang would be easily fooled by a Photoshop fake.

[sadkingbilly]

The phone that I mentioned before is 4G, and I think that would apply to any new phone that's been sold in the past few years. Bear in mind that 2G and 3G are being discontinued at network level:
3G and 2G switch-off - Ofcom

There's a wider question of how this hypothetical app will work, and the short answer is that we don't know yet. However, it's entirely possible that the phone won't need an active internet connection at all (when you're showing your ID). A couple of other options:
* It might use NFC (Near Field Communication), the same way that you can use a phone for contactless payment.
* When I use the FirstBus app, it displays an animated QR code, and the ticket machine on the bus scans that code.

I.e. the scanner will need internet access, and the phone will need internet access when you set up the app, but that could use a wireless network (at home) rather than a mobile data network.

all that palaver, and the 'phone's effectively a passive lump displaying an ID card?
just have a smart card, ffs.

[hobnob]

affordable, maybe, although they change net specs often in order to render handsets obsolete, so they can flog new ones.
and will it work on a 2G phone?? i doubt it*

The phone that I mentioned before is 4G, and I think that would apply to any new phone that's been sold in the past few years. Bear in mind that 2G and 3G are being discontinued at network level:
3G and 2G switch-off - Ofcom

There's a wider question of how this hypothetical app will work, and the short answer is that we don't know yet. However, it's entirely possible that the phone won't need an active internet connection at all (when you're showing your ID). A couple of other options:
* It might use NFC (Near Field Communication), the same way that you can use a phone for contactless payment.
* When I use the FirstBus app, it displays an animated QR code, and the ticket machine on the bus scans that code.

I.e. the scanner will need internet access, and the phone will need internet access when you set up the app, but that could use a wireless network (at home) rather than a mobile data network.

[sadkingbilly]

I don't have a major objection to an ID card, it's just that I doubt it will achieve what Starmer is saying it will (are people hiring illegally really going to take any notice of it?) and I fear a serious degree of scope creep. Won't happen for at least five years, so the next government will probably kill it anyway.

Given Labour's historical connections it will likely go to Oracle...

I have to agree, no amount of legislation will ever stop the black economy.
there are ways to avoid anything, if you put enough effort in.
It's the kind of thing Farage/Trump/Putin/any other proponent of police states likes though.