Reply to: The worst post Brexit trade deal since the previous one

[willendure]

What gets me is the lack of enthusiasm for home grown talent and enterprise. We don't have a skills shortage but we do have a shortage of people in power who recognise and champion the local people with skills. The various catapult and other innovation schemes backed by government are generally just hot air intent on championing woke and flash in the pan innovations.

We have a shortage of pride and confidence in our own country I agree.

And last 20+ years its mostly been about big business skimming off profit rather than investing. This country has had lower rates of infrastructure investment that just about all developed western economies. I would say our ruling class is largely captured by those wealthy capitalists that extract our wealth.

Just back from France where the economy might not be great, and lunch time closure is irritating, and air traffic control like to go on strike... yet I cannot help but admire the pride they take in their culture and are prepared to support it.

[edison]

Absolutely; the days of manufacturing being acres of space with humans assembling things is not the UK's future.

We need to concentrate on high value-add activity. And the UK's failure to identify and support 'strategic' industries is storing up trouble. For example, Although the 1980s effort to have the UK making semiconductors came to not much - I think it's something we should be doing to protect against future supply chain issues.

Isn't it curious, we don't see the UK as a major car manufacturer but the government agrees a trade deal based on reduced tariffs for car exports ...

We just seem to miss lots of opportunities.

Take renewable energy, we should be well placed for wind turbine manufacturing. But the 5 biggest manufacturers in the UK by installed capacity are all foreign.

We're also poor at translating university research into products we can make and sell.

[WTFH]

AI missed that one altogether.

However, now it tells me Morgan is actually majority Italian-owned. But Aston is only 20% foreign-owned (Mercedes).

Aston is 33% Canadian (Lawrence Stroll), 20% Mercedes, 17% Saudi Arabi PIF, then there's Toto Wolff and Ernesto Bertarelli who own about 8%.

[Protagoras]

Isn't TVR back in British ownership?

[woody1]

What about Ariel?

AI missed that one altogether.

However, now it tells me Morgan is actually majority Italian-owned. But Aston is only 20% foreign-owned (Mercedes).

[WTFH]

BTW, I did a quick search and apparently Morgan is the only UK-owned manufacturer left. The rest are wholly or majority-foreign-owned.

What about Ariel?

[woody1]

Isn't it curious, we don't see the UK as a major car manufacturer but the government agrees a trade deal based on reduced tariffs for car exports ...

Just guessing, but probably because they're one of the few things we do export to India (and America)?

JLR being Indian-owned might have had something to do with it as well.

BTW, I did a quick search and apparently Morgan is the only UK-owned manufacturer left. The rest are wholly or majority-foreign-owned.

[Protagoras]

Absolutely; the days of manufacturing being acres of space with humans assembling things is not the UK's future.

We need to concentrate on high value-add activity. And the UK's failure to identify and support 'strategic' industries is storing up trouble. For example, Although the 1980s effort to have the UK making semiconductors came to not much - I think it's something we should be doing to protect against future supply chain issues.

Isn't it curious, we don't see the UK as a major car manufacturer but the government agrees a trade deal based on reduced tariffs for car exports ...

[edison]

Seems to me that those in government and finance have long regarded those in science / engineering / technology as expensive and inferior commodities.

The current state of the UK is the direct result of the decline of sufficient value-add activity, such as engineering and manufacturing. This has its roots post ww2 in the failure to invest, modernise and support strategic industries, to define and articulate a vision to workers exposed to modernisation.

Selling off utilities didn't help, so that we now have outrageously priced energy and other essentials as part of a 'rentier' economy, destroying competitiveness by driving up costs.

A poster above mentioned voting Reform; I really don't consider that there's any party in the UK that I could vote for - the best to hope for is a sensible indenpendent candidate.

Agree with a lot of what you say but large scale manufacturing is never coming back to the UK.

Whilst we are still the 6th largest nation in the world by industrial output, we simply don't have the scale and infrastructure to compete with China etc. We do well in high value add manufacturing sectors like aerospace and pharma but we're never going to have a big car industry again for example.

Even if we somehow did grow our manufacturing output, it wouldn't create anywhere near the amount of jobs people think. I visited the BMW Mini factory recently and it produces the same number of cars as 40 years ago with 80% less humans and 60% less space. As robotics and AI improves, the proportion of humans needed will continue to fall.

[DoctorStrangelove]

One must admit that The Milk Snatcher, a "scientist" of sorts, was consistent: shut down much of industry, then you don't need the Industry Training Boards any more.

Then again the talking shoppe in Westminster is stuffed full of Arts grads & lawyers.

Maths & suchlike was never very high on their list of priorities.

Or The Rude Mechanicals. .

[Protagoras]

We don't have a skills shortage but we do have a shortage of people in power who recognise and champion the local people with skills.

Seems to me that those in government and finance have long regarded those in science / engineering / technology as expensive and inferior commodities.

The current state of the UK is the direct result of the decline of sufficient value-add activity, such as engineering and manufacturing. This has its roots post ww2 in the failure to invest, modernise and support strategic industries, to define and articulate a vision to workers exposed to modernisation.

Selling off utilities didn't help, so that we now have outrageously priced energy and other essentials as part of a 'rentier' economy, destroying competitiveness by driving up costs.

A poster above mentioned voting Reform; I really don't consider that there's any party in the UK that I could vote for - the best to hope for is a sensible indenpendent candidate.

[tazdevil]

What gets me is the lack of enthusiasm for home grown talent and enterprise. We don't have a skills shortage but we do have a shortage of people in power who recognise and champion the local people with skills. The various catapult and other innovation schemes backed by government are generally just hot air intent on championing woke and flash in the pan innovations.

[ladymuck]

I wrote to my MP to complain about this deal when it was being discussed months ago. They didn't even bother acknowledging my letter. They probably just assumed I was being racist.

[Protagoras]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/p...h-india-signed

"Today, the Prime Minister will welcome nearly £6 billion in new investment and export wins, which will create over 2,200 British jobs across the country as Indian firms expand their operations in the UK and British companies secure new business opportunities in India. These deals will drive jobs in high-growth sectors like aerospace, technology and advanced manufacturing – supporting engineers, technicians and supply chain workers, in every corner of the UK."

I must admit to being highly skeptical that these benefits will be realised in practice; it looks like a poor deal for UK workers.

[willendure]

Yeah - whats in it for us? Just seems like total capitulation to the other sides demands.

Cheap Indian workers paying zero NI for 3 years effectively means never, because they can be kept on a 3 year rolling conveyor belt. Same time as NI has been put up for UK workers.

This will undermine UK IT workers even more than they already have been - what were our government smoking when they signed off on this? I guess lobying from big business in the UK is behind it, because in the short run they can profit from paying less in wages. In the long run its a disaster our country maintaining any significant role in technology leadership.

I'm more of a leftie politically but... I shall be voting for Reform at the next election - which will be a disaster for all kinds of reasons if they get in. But what the hell, there is no-one else left that will stand up for the British people in any way, so lets have it.