Reply to: Oh my.

[Gibbon]

We don't talk about that. Or that "In the early 18th century, Kings of Dahomey (known today as Benin) became big players in the slave trade, waging a bitter war on their neighbours, resulting in the capture of 10,000, including another important slave trader, the King of Whydah. King Tegbesu made £250,000 a year selling people into slavery in 1750."

On my late OU course I remember asking what the Benin people were trading for the bronze to make their art. 'Commodities' was the answer.

[Fraidycat]

Let's be honest, however you look at it, Ukraine is in a rather bad position, the country is destroyed, it will take years to rebuild, population is spread around Europe, most young (or not even so young) men are dead or will be living with severe PTSD for the rest of their lives.

They have resorted to force conscripting men with Down Syndrome for the trenches, heart breaking video: https://twitter.com/stillgray/status...15576435097656

[malvolio]

Strange I thought that is something that needs sharing during Black history month.

Don't eb daft. You'd have to re-educate a whole generation of students whose outlook is conditioned by sound-bites like exploitation and white privilege.

Let's face it, as one example, all the beef about Britain's slave trading past (and a very graphic museum exhibition on slaving in Bristol a while back) neatly ignores the minor detail that we were the ones that stopped it.

[vetran]

We don't talk about that. Or that "In the early 18th century, Kings of Dahomey (known today as Benin) became big players in the slave trade, waging a bitter war on their neighbours, resulting in the capture of 10,000, including another important slave trader, the King of Whydah. King Tegbesu made £250,000 a year selling people into slavery in 1750."

Strange I thought that is something that needs sharing during Black history month.

[Zigenare]

There was an African king that had made so many of his people slaves he had to restrict selling into slavery so he hade enough subjects to protect him.

<shush>We don't talk about that. Or that "In the early 18th century, Kings of Dahomey (known today as Benin) became big players in the slave trade, waging a bitter war on their neighbours, resulting in the capture of 10,000, including another important slave trader, the King of Whydah. King Tegbesu made £250,000 a year selling people into slavery in 1750."</shush>

[vetran]

Zelenskyy hasn't been shy in their PR game.

There is something utterly depressing about the idea that a country loses it's independence solely because it ran out of people who could fight.

I'm not convinced that Ukraine is on it knees. When you look at populations and casualties figures, from all sources, the numbers just doesn't stack up that Ukraine is running out of men.

To be blunt, regardless of the outcome, Russia is a spent force for the foreseeable future. Their population was already declining, taking a huge chunk out of another generation of men is only going to increase the speed of the decline. Which is a win for the West.

There was an African king that had made so many of his people slaves he had to restrict selling into slavery so he hade enough subjects to protect him.

[woody1]

Maybe the only hope is if Putin pegs it. OK no guarantee his successor would change tack but there's always a chance. I wonder how many high-ups secretly wish that Russia would withdraw from this (like Afghanistan in the late-80s)?

[dsc]

Ironically that is what has happened to Russia with both world wars. It's a secondary problem for Ukraine. Their immediate issue is to win the war. Demographics are a problem for sovereign countries. If they win the war and/or a stalemate is reached, EU membership comes next. Which would open the doors for immigration to tackle their demographic problem.

Demographics is an issue that faces pretty much every developed nation. People have less children the more developed their countries becomes.

Let's be honest, however you look at it, Ukraine is in a rather bad position, the country is destroyed, it will take years to rebuild, population is spread around Europe, most young (or not even so young) men are dead or will be living with severe PTSD for the rest of their lives. They will need endless amounts of cash to go back to normality, whilst still trying to push russians from their land. And I reckon sooner or later, the west will bail, or will try to convince Ukraine to make some sort of a deal (which would be stupid as you can't really negotiate with russians).

[JustKeepSwimming]

No doubt there are still young people around who could be sent, but then that will lead a wipeout of the younger generation and collapse of the future birth rate etc, so I guess they are spreading the death toll across the whole age demographic.

Ironically that is what has happened to Russia with both world wars. It's a secondary problem for Ukraine. Their immediate issue is to win the war. Demographics are a problem for sovereign countries. If they win the war and/or a stalemate is reached, EU membership comes next. Which would open the doors for immigration to tackle their demographic problem.

Demographics is an issue that faces pretty much every developed nation. People have less children the more developed their countries becomes.

[Fraidycat]

Maybe the most eager fighters of both sides are out of commission. The highest estimate for Ukraine is what, 120k wounded? That still leaves 400k+.
Could Russia outlast Ukraine in a war of attrition? Probably, I just think we are several years away from that.

No doubt there are still young people around who could be sent, but then that will lead a wipeout of the younger generation and collapse of the future birth rate etc, so I guess they are spreading the death toll across the whole age demographic.

[JustKeepSwimming]

I think the a large chunk of the best fighting stock is either dead or injured, just mostly the dregs being recruited now.

According to The Economist, Ukraine recently sent a platoon of 20 soldiers to fight in Donbas, with some taken from villages without notice and one older man who didn't even have time to pick up his false teeth.

https://www.businessinsider.in/inter.../106100089.cms

Maybe the most eager fighters of both sides are out of commission. The highest estimate for Ukraine is what, 120k wounded? That still leaves 400k+.

Could Russia outlast Ukraine in a war of attrition? Probably, I just think we are several years away from that.

[Fraidycat]

When you look at populations and casualties figures, from all sources, the numbers just doesn't stack up that Ukraine is running out of men.

I think the a large chunk of the best fighting stock is either dead or injured, just mostly the dregs being recruited now.

According to The Economist, Ukraine recently sent a platoon of 20 soldiers to fight in Donbas, with some taken from villages without notice and one older man who didn't even have time to pick up his false teeth.

https://www.businessinsider.in/inter.../106100089.cms

[JustKeepSwimming]

Ukraine is already done, they have run out of fit men. The average age of a Ukrainian solider is now 43 years old according to Time magazine. No amount of US money can change that.

"Even if the US were to provide Ukraine with all the weapons it promised, a Zelenskyy aide told Time, Ukraine simply doesn't "have the men to use them."

https://www.businessinsider.com/aver...3-11?r=US&IR=T

Zelenskyy hasn't been shy in their PR game.

There is something utterly depressing about the idea that a country loses it's independence solely because it ran out of people who could fight.

I'm not convinced that Ukraine is on it knees. When you look at populations and casualties figures, from all sources, the numbers just doesn't stack up that Ukraine is running out of men.

To be blunt, regardless of the outcome, Russia is a spent force for the foreseeable future. Their population was already declining, taking a huge chunk out of another generation of men is only going to increase the speed of the decline. Which is a win for the West.

[vetran]

Ukraine is already done, they have run out of fit men. The average age of a Ukrainian solider is now 43 years old according to Time magazine. No amount of US money can change that.

"Even if the US were to provide Ukraine with all the weapons it promised, a Zelenskyy aide told Time, Ukraine simply doesn't "have the men to use them."

https://www.businessinsider.com/aver...3-11?r=US&IR=T

send in the Palestinians and rubber boat men?

[Fraidycat]

All Trump needs to do is be less generous with the money flow to Ukraine and they are done.

Ukraine is already done, they have run out of fit men. The average age of a Ukrainian solider is now 43 years old according to Time magazine. No amount of US money can change that.

"Even if the US were to provide Ukraine with all the weapons it promised, a Zelenskyy aide told Time, Ukraine simply doesn't "have the men to use them."

https://www.businessinsider.com/aver...3-11?r=US&IR=T