Reply to: Do People Still Stay Away?

[vetran]

For any project where you are working with a new team then a few face to faces at the beginning really helps. I used to drive / fly to other sites to show a friendly face to the end users at the start of the project, a firm handshake is a good start.

I did build good relationships with people I never met in the USA/Australia/Germany etc. But it took longer.

Where you work with another team then getting together is a great way to move things forward.

pre-dominantly remote can work if you have decent managers. Imagine that happening!

I realised the other day that with a fully remote job I had spent more time talking to the receptionist than my boss (his choice I pestered him for 121s).

[northernladuk]

I'm not so sure. I hear complaints from friends that managers are struggling to align the senior manager demands with office reality. Expenses aren't liked. An acceptable hotel, forgetting London, is £150+ in Birmingham, Bristol, Edinburgh, Manchester. Getting the team together is costing a fortune and people prefer working remotely.

I keep seeing people saying this but I'm honestly trying to find more than a handful of people that feel this. Everyone on my account thinks hybrid is working. They are on between 1 and 3 days a week in the office depending on position and most are doing more as it's a hellishly busy programme. Even my 22 year old who doesn't know any better likes to go in the office 2 days a week and doesn't want to work fully remote.

If you mean people prefer working remotely in a hybrid model I'd agree. If you mean people prefer working 100% remote then I'm really struggling to find much evidence of that in professional circles.

[ChimpMaster]

I've been 100% WFH for around 7 or 8 years (as contractor and as permie), but now actually miss going into an office. Life flies by so quick and it's a little sad to think I've spent so much of it sat at home on a laptop. Though to be fair my 20s and 30s were spent consulting and travelling, and working in the City (London) and that was fun.

I would think a hybrid model is best, so that people can learn from each other especially if they are new joiners. People need work in groups sometimes, it's better for mental health.

[agentzero]

I'm not so sure. I hear complaints from friends that managers are struggling to align the senior manager demands with office reality. Expenses aren't liked. An acceptable hotel, forgetting London, is £150+ in Birmingham, Bristol, Edinburgh, Manchester. Getting the team together is costing a fortune and people prefer working remotely.

I think that we will reach a happy medium where the contractor pays the expenses out their own pocket the team get together is once every 3 or 4 months. Covid is striking people this Christmas already and our planned team event is down by 50% already due to covid taking out some of the families.

What are we trying to achieve when meeting up? A plan for the next 1/2/3 months of work? If so, we can still do it remotely. Looking at the commercial property market, I think we are at a tipping point downwards and the coming bloodbath will see a lot of the temporary offices empty due to disputes.

The current rend is probably geographic, but if you are out living in the sticks and 2 to 4+ hours from a major town or city, I don't think you should be disadvantaged from a role. In a way geography is prejudice. We need people to fill up the countryside and rural areas, to make them worth living in for others. Times are changing, but slowly.

[vetran]

One of my recent clients are based in a swanky high rise office in Canary Wharf. They're in the process of more than halving the office space they have. I'm wondering if they're going to get a similar shock next year.

It seems that a lot of big companies (at least in in London) are in the process of consolidating offices as leases run out and moving to offices geared more towards collaborative working. Might make having to go into the office occasionally bit more bearable.

I suspect hotels with big conference centres will do well over the next few years.

[edison]

About a month ago we had a "Planning Session" where all minions attached to the project were mustered for 2 days in the office - senior management got a shock when they saw that there wasn't enough room for said minions on the same floor!

Thankfully I am outside IR35 but it was still 6 hours of driving that I'm not going to recoup!

One of my recent clients are based in a swanky high rise office in Canary Wharf. They're in the process of more than halving the office space they have. I'm wondering if they're going to get a similar shock next year.

It seems that a lot of big companies (at least in in London) are in the process of consolidating offices as leases run out and moving to offices geared more towards collaborative working. Might make having to go into the office occasionally bit more bearable.

[Zigenare]

I think home working is here to stay until at least the next recession. The PHB's love the sight of minions running around. Though at the rate the bean counters are closing all the offices it may be a moot point.

About a month ago we had a "Planning Session" where all minions attached to the project were mustered for 2 days in the office - senior management got a shock when they saw that there wasn't enough room for said minions on the same floor!

Thankfully I am outside IR35 but it was still 6 hours of driving that I'm not going to recoup!

[vetran]

Hypothetical Inside IR35: completely remote or a very short local commute.

Outside: Preference for remote, meet up for a couple of days maximum once a month.

Think for the amount of time commuting wasted in your life, add in London as a preference for company meet ups and the expense and time wasted on that. Even if the client is paying for travel, they can't reimburse you the time wasted. Covid working has shown that remote can work very well in a professional environment. The time wasted is time you can spend with family, friends, doing things you enjoy. It is evident now that the workaholics, also those that don't contribute much but think being present in an office are a substitute for work, are easily identified and sidelined. I am enjoying the new ways of working. I only work outside IR35 and 99% of work is remote. Long may it continue.

A figure of office attendance of 60% mentioned sounds like civil service mandates. Civil Service and other some other industries want people in at least 3 days a week. Don't cave in, these mandates will pass.

I think home working is here to stay until at least the next recession. The PHB's love the sight of minions running around. Though at the rate the bean counters are closing all the offices it may be a moot point.

[agentzero]

Hypothetical Inside IR35: completely remote or a very short local commute.

Outside: Preference for remote, meet up for a couple of days maximum once a month.

Think for the amount of time commuting wasted in your life, add in London as a preference for company meet ups and the expense and time wasted on that. Even if the client is paying for travel, they can't reimburse you the time wasted. Covid working has shown that remote can work very well in a professional environment. The time wasted is time you can spend with family, friends, doing things you enjoy. It is evident now that the workaholics, also those that don't contribute much but think being present in an office are a substitute for work, are easily identified and sidelined. I am enjoying the new ways of working. I only work outside IR35 and 99% of work is remote. Long may it continue.

A figure of office attendance of 60% mentioned sounds like civil service mandates. Civil Service and other some other industries want people in at least 3 days a week. Don't cave in, these mandates will pass.

[edison]

Funnily enough I have just finished a contract a couple of train stops away in St Neots and, like Peterborough, they struggled to find local contractors and to extent permanent staff. Peterborough was pre lockdown and on the day I started there were two contractors from Manchester and me from the south coast. They had permanent staff coming in from Leicester and Boston.

My recent contract was mostly remote so less of an issue but we still had to go in one day a week and they had contractors from Norwich and Reading, while I imagine they would have preferred people nearer.

I assume lot of people in and around St Neots work in Cambridge although the car commute is a bit of a ball ache according to friends who live in central St Neots. Cambridge is a real jobs boom city with the large science park, business park and fairly new bioscience park. Surrounding towns will always struggle to attract staff.

To be fair to Peterborough, it's a relatively cheap area with good transport and economic growth. Not too dissimilar to a few places that go in a rough arc from Swindon in the west towards Milton Keynes/Northampton and on to Peterborough.

[Dactylion]

One of my first contracts when I moved to England was in Peterborough. Used to stay at the Holiday Inn in Norman Cross, but that's 20 years ago and I suspect it's no longer there.

Norman Cross isn't even there.....

Well the roundabout that was in the middle of the A1 isn't there. That stretch has been Morotway'd so there is now a massive roundabout that you come off of the main drag for. The Hotel may or may not be there (and even more may/may not be Holiday Inn)

[WTFH]

One of my first contracts when I moved to England was in Peterborough. Used to stay at the Holiday Inn in Norman Cross, but that's 20 years ago and I suspect it's no longer there.

[SussexSeagull]

Peterborough and the surrounding vicinity has some big companies including a few IT services companies. A few years ago I worked for a very large conglomerate that had several large companies there, including some of my team.

There was real competition for IT staff but as far as I remember, few employees actually lived there, they tended to commute from one of the many villages nearby, especially towards Cambridge.

Thankfully I never got to see the town itself and I don't think I missed much.

Funnily enough I have just finished a contract a couple of train stops away in St Neots and, like Peterborough, they struggled to find local contractors and to extent permanent staff. Peterborough was pre lockdown and on the day I started there were two contractors from Manchester and me from the south coast. They had permanent staff coming in from Leicester and Boston.

My recent contract was mostly remote so less of an issue but we still had to go in one day a week and they had contractors from Norwich and Reading, while I imagine they would have preferred people nearer.

[SussexSeagull]

Dear Lord - A year in Peterborough that must've been... errr "fun"

What the hell do you do in Peterborough?

To be absolutely honest it is a functional City with a mainline station that allowed me to get there on the Monday and home again on the Friday with a bus network that got me between AirBnB and office every morning and evening.

The AirBnB I found had a kitchen so I could cook for myself so didn't rely on takeaway.

Not a place I am likely to visit again but perfectly serviceable.

[edison]

Dear Lord - A year in Peterborough that must've been... errr "fun"

What the hell do you do in Peterborough?

Peterborough and the surrounding vicinity has some big companies including a few IT services companies. A few years ago I worked for a very large conglomerate that had several large companies there, including some of my team.

There was real competition for IT staff but as far as I remember, few employees actually lived there, they tended to commute from one of the many villages nearby, especially towards Cambridge.

Thankfully I never got to see the town itself and I don't think I missed much.