Reply to: We need to pressure clients more for remote working

[milanbenes]

Is it one of those self combusting batphones like the Samsung Galaxy?

Throw it in a bucket of water, quick.

I'm getting too many calls with offers for work and am quoting a 20% higher rate (than the current contract) to try to slow down demand, but they are all accepting it

Milan.

[DoctorStrangelove]

Drew it looks like we are in the same business

My phone is red hot

Milan.

Is it one of those self combusting batphones like the Samsung Galaxy?

Throw it in a bucket of water, quick.

[dsc]

Also one of my last clients tried that e.g. got rid of "expensive" UK contractors. They then found there were not enough people with the skills they wanted in cheaper European countries. They were also having issues with worker behaviour plus the infrastructure in some other countries. This meant they had to hire some "expensive" UK contractors after getting rid of some 6 months earlier...

Clearly the cocked up the hiring process and got some inexperienced people. What were the issues with worker behaviour?

[milanbenes]

I didn't even send a CV for this role. I sent a one-pager on how I think they should migrate their existing ERP to S/4HANA and what the common issues are on that migration path within their industry. There was a link to my linkedin profile at the bottom of the page, maybe that counts as a CV?

There's a reason I won the role above everyone else that applied and part of that was me not sending a tulipty permie looking CV (probably what yours looks like).

In a bear market, I can't believe you're advocating for NOT learning how to sell. You're supposed to be a vendor, act like one.

Drew it looks like we are in the same business

My phone is red hot

Milan.

[vetran]

Many clients want their senior technology positions to be filled by people who are a "cultural fit" so that helps.

Also, try putting out an ad in India then wading through 400 applicants, most of which can't do what you need them to do.

Apparently that is an issue in the UK pesky workers want minimum wage and fair employment practices.

[JustKeepSwimming]

IME offshoring is a brilliant idea of some senior director to cut costs, gets big bonus and legs it before tulip hits the fan.

I've had two instances with Indian's fronting. Ie the person that was interviewed was not the person who turned up to do the job. The first time I literally thought I was going crazy because the colleague who sat in the interview thought it was the same person (it wasn't). The second time and it was comical how different they looked. HR had no idea how to deal with it.

[DoctorStrangelove]

I suspect the assembled congregation would much prefer Bob Showaddiwaddi.

It's just a feeling. . Specifically in General, like.

[DrewG]

If the role can be done 100% remotely, it can be done offshore.

Many clients want their senior technology positions to be filled by people who are a "cultural fit" so that helps.

Also, try putting out an ad in India then wading through 400 applicants, most of which can't do what you need them to do.

[SueEllen]

If the role can be done 100% remotely, it can be done offshore.

Not always.

There are sometimes data/security requirements which means the role can only be done in the UK using UK based network/internet connections.

Also one of my last clients tried that e.g. got rid of "expensive" UK contractors. They then found there were not enough people with the skills they wanted in cheaper European countries. They were also having issues with worker behaviour plus the infrastructure in some other countries. This meant they had to hire some "expensive" UK contractors after getting rid of some 6 months earlier...

[mudskipper]

If the role can be done 100% remotely, it can be done offshore.

[courtg9000]

I didn't even send a CV for this role. I sent a one-pager on how I think they should migrate their existing ERP to S/4HANA and what the common issues are on that migration path within their industry. There was a link to my linkedin profile at the bottom of the page, maybe that counts as a CV?

There's a reason I won the role above everyone else that applied and part of that was me not sending a tulipty permie looking CV (probably what yours looks like).

In a bear market, I can't believe you're advocating for NOT learning how to sell. You're supposed to be a vendor, act like one.

Oh I know how to sell my fine friend. Not just My services as a contractor. Lets take a look at what I have sold in the past, cars (Ford's), IT Hardware, boats, recruitment, a recruitment company, a few pubs and hotels and quite a few other businesses, advertising, and services to the UHNWI community.

My cv's have always taken into account what the client is buying and thus targeted accordingly. I haven't actually needed a CV since 2013 as all my work since then has come via word of mouth referrals and references.

[DrewG]

To be fair I'd be fully expecting them to turn the tables the minute I'm in in a situation like that. I've seen it before in the old world when it was full in the office and someone has negotiated hybrid. Started for a few weeks and then when go live approaches the person was 'requested' to come in full time and the relationship broke down.

I can see in some cases a client could be flexible and it can work, particularly when the client is being unreasonable in their initial hybrid approach but I can also see them negotiating to getting someone in to a role they are finding it hard to resource and then playing the 'goal posts have moved so it's back to normal' card as soon as you are bedded in. They'll assume you'll get used to when it hits and won't be banking on you chucking the towel in. Make sure you get whatever agreement you reach in the contract.

Great points.

I'm hoping that once I've proven my value, they will be more afraid to swap me out so they won't shift the goalposts. Only time will tell.

I'm also happy to walk away if things change which puts me in a good position from a negotiation perspective (not desperate).

I highly doubt they will write the flexible conditions into the contract; I'm not sure if I should push for that or if it would kill it completely.

[northernladuk]

That's exactly what I've done since they've come back to me with a slightly more flexible offer. I won't give a blow-by-blow account but they seem happy to compromise, I'm testing how far that will go before they get fed up of me.

To be fair I'd be fully expecting them to turn the tables the minute I'm in in a situation like that. I've seen it before in the old world when it was full in the office and someone has negotiated hybrid. Started for a few weeks and then when go live approaches the person was 'requested' to come in full time and the relationship broke down.

I can see in some cases a client could be flexible and it can work, particularly when the client is being unreasonable in their initial hybrid approach but I can also see them negotiating to getting someone in to a role they are finding it hard to resource and then playing the 'goal posts have moved so it's back to normal' card as soon as you are bedded in. They'll assume you'll get used to when it hits and won't be banking on you chucking the towel in. Make sure you get whatever agreement you reach in the contract.

[DrewG]

Why don't you tell them that you are happy to come on for specific meetings but not on a fixed schedule.

Then ensure you get enough notice for those meetings as well as a meeting agenda, especially if the client has any managers who are time wasters, before you come in. That way you have time to sort out any help needed for your wife.

Also once you have your feet under the table refuse to go in around your wife's due date if it means you have to travel more than 90 minutes to the client.

No point cutting your nose off to spite your face.

That's exactly what I've done since they've come back to me with a slightly more flexible offer. I won't give a blow-by-blow account but they seem happy to compromise, I'm testing how far that will go before they get fed up of me.

[SueEllen]

It's the state of now so that's what I'm working with right now. There is a wider diversity point to be made there though for parents, carers, and other people whose movements are limited.

For me, it's a quality of life issue. I just plain don't want to travel on a fixed schedule, only happy to do ad-hoc trips where needed. There's no reason why I shouldn't attempt to get what I want out of employment.

Im not looking for charity, I'm looking to provide highly skilled services remotely and I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is on the issue.

Since rejecting the offer, they have come back with a modified onsite schedule which I am considering but I'm still leaning towards no. They can go through the pain of interviewing again under the realisation that their preferred candidates aren't happy with their crappy working practices.

Why don't you tell them that you are happy to come on for specific meetings but not on a fixed schedule.

Then ensure you get enough notice for those meetings as well as a meeting agenda, especially if the client has any managers who are time wasters, before you come in. That way you have time to sort out any help needed for your wife.

Also once you have your feet under the table refuse to go in around your wife's due date if it means you have to travel more than 90 minutes to the client.

No point cutting your nose off to spite your face.