Reply to: DOOM: Taxes

[AtW]

“The Times has also been told that Sunak and Hunt have discussed allowing local authorities to raise significantly more by removing the requirement for them to hold a referendum if they want to increase council tax by more than 2.99 per cent.

However, the plans are likely to be rejected amid concerns that they will hit some of the poorest and most vulnerable residents (AtW’s comment: no, Tory Scum concerned it will hit pensioners who vote for them) who are struggling to cope with the cost of living.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...irms-m7wdbv7pw

Council tax has really gone up in the last 10 years and basic services gone down

[hugebrain]

I think you've definitely got the BTL one wrong for a start, dunno about the others. I don't know where you think BTL get free boilers from but it's certainly not true. There is a system but it depends on the income of the tenants and all sorts. There are other taxes on BTL's like when you sell or inherit the properties and the like as well.

But that said. The whole point I was making was to try realign The Dudes whining about the rich and their assets not being touched. Yes, lots of debate to be had around individual examples but his simplistic moaning is his state of mind and he's not looking at it objectively.

But I just pointed out to you how the rich aren’t touched in the same way. They are either not taxed at all or are taxed and then subsidised to make up for the lost money (plus a bit more).

Sorry you missed out on the energy efficiency scheme, the details were - benefits scroungers got help with one boiler, working people get your own you can afford it, buy-to-letters up to 100,000 EUR in free boilers, kerching! You are too late to apply now. (Yes, you had to be exploiting poor tenants, but that’s hardly a problem).

[northernladuk]

Except that that isn’t really true is it? Own a forest and sell timber, no tax. Farming: massive subsidies, millions for race-horse owners. Buy-to-let: receive more in subsidies then they pay in tax, plus exempted from VAT and most National Insurance, free boilers etc.

These taxes are much more a war on work and a way of preserving inequality than a way of raising money. The forty-five percent tax doesn’t even bring in anything - it’s to keep the proles away from the gentry.

I think you've definitely got the BTL one wrong for a start, dunno about the others. I don't know where you think BTL get free boilers from but it's certainly not true. There is a system but it depends on the income of the tenants and all sorts. There are other taxes on BTL's like when you sell or inherit the properties and the like as well.

But that said. The whole point I was making was to try realign The Dudes whining about the rich and their assets not being touched. Yes, lots of debate to be had around individual examples but his simplistic moaning is his state of mind and he's not looking at it objectively.

[hugebrain]

That property, investments etc were taxed when they were set up and likely to have been taxed on profits all along.

Except that that isn’t really true is it? Own a forest and sell timber, no tax. Farming: massive subsidies, millions for race-horse owners. Buy-to-let: receive more in subsidies then they pay in tax, plus exempted from VAT and most National Insurance, free boilers etc.

These taxes are much more a war on work and a way of preserving inequality than a way of raising money. The forty-five percent tax doesn’t even bring in anything - it’s to keep the proles away from the gentry.

[northernladuk]

I am not quite in this position and am happy to pay a bit more tax.

it just leaves a bad taste whilst those who live of property, investments and family wealth passed down through the generations remain largely untouched.

Problem here is you. You just sound like a bitter poor person in every thread. As usual you are completely wrong. You really need to re-adjust your thinking rather than just posting these asinine posts. Just think a bit rather being oh woe is me.

Those property, investments etc were taxed when they were set up and likely to have been taxed on profits all along. There is then inheritance tax and then there is tax on profits to the people that have inherited them and so many other taxes. To say it's largely untouched is just naïve. Gotta make a better argument than that if anyone is going to take you seriously.

Largely untouched? Again, what does that mean? You've got to stop throwing these intangibles around and look at fact and figures.

And why should they be touched? People worked for them, saved for them and paid tax on them. What happens when we look at your assets and they are considerable compared to your average UK household and we slap a 40% tax on every penny you've earned, paid tax on and own? Will you be so woe is me then? I bet not.

As an example.. very simplistic and yes a ton of argument around it but.. Prince Charles. Does it leave a bad taste in your mouth he pays nothing on everything he's inherited? It shouldn't. Can't find the numbers recently be he paid £5M tax in 2011/12 so will be much more now. Using a royal is a terrible example and opens a whole other can of worms but for the sake of context here he has what you say and it certainly isn't untouched.

Do you think any of the below live on stuff passed to them? Do you despise them for being wealthy and you believe they don't contribute enough or live off inheritance for free? Do these tax bills look like its largely untouched?

1. Denise John and Peter Coates £481.7m

2. Chris Rokos £300m

3. Stephen Rubin and family £256.1m

4. The Weston family £175.4m

5. Fred and Peter Done £169.8m

6. Lord Sugar £163.4m

7. Peter Harris and family £141.4m

8. Sir Chris Hohn £126.1m

9. Leonie Schroder and family £121.2m

10. Alex Gerko £117.4m

I say again, lots of debate around this but just a starter for 10 to try and counter this attitude that you are poor and the rich don't pay their share.

You need to get a grip.

[northernladuk]

oh cheers interesting. I'm rich!

wow £302,000 as median wealth.

That would be the house then? I doubt many have that as ready cash.

Wealth is all assets you own. Equity in house, cash, pension, cars etc.

[TheDude]

Many on here think that having three kids in private school, his and hers matching Range Rovers, with skiiing holidays in the winter and a far away luxury beach holidays in the summer is "confortable" but not at all "wealthy".

Wake up call, the Tories and Labour are going to pin these massive tax hikes on you and the general public, living pay cheque to pay cheque are going to support them every step of the way.

I am not quite in this position and am happy to pay a bit more tax.

it just leaves a bad taste whilst those who live of property, investments and family wealth passed down through the generations remain largely untouched.

[AtW]

Serious money can only be raised from general increase in taxation - 2% on all will get 35-40 bln but they will sell it with 5% hike “on the rich” which will raise a billion at best and most likely cost money, they are clearly angling to increase CGT as well

[vetran]

Compared to many in the country, yes you are. Many people live on a hand to mouth existence, with nothing left in the bank at the end of the week, and no assets at all.

I know on here we do a bit of willy waving (sorry ladies, not sure what the equivalent is for you) about how much we earn etc, and here amongst 'equals' it's probably OK, but out there in the real world we are seen as rich. We might think comfortable rather than rich, but when you have nothing, it really is just semantics.

agreeing with Whorty - oh my lord!

[_V_]

Many on here think that having three kids in private school, his and hers matching Range Rovers, with skiiing holidays in the winter and a far away luxury beach holidays in the summer is "confortable" but not at all "wealthy".

Wake up call, the Tories and Labour are going to pin these massive tax hikes on you and the general public, living pay cheque to pay cheque are going to support them every step of the way.

[Whorty]

oh cheers interesting. I'm rich!

wow £302,000 as median wealth.

That would be the house then? I doubt many have that as ready cash.

Compared to many in the country, yes you are. Many people live on a hand to mouth existence, with nothing left in the bank at the end of the week, and no assets at all.

I know on here we do a bit of willy waving (sorry ladies, not sure what the equivalent is for you) about how much we earn etc, and here amongst 'equals' it's probably OK, but out there in the real world we are seen as rich. We might think comfortable rather than rich, but when you have nothing, it really is just semantics.

[jamesbrown]

oh cheers interesting. I'm rich!

wow £302,000 as median wealth.

That would be the house then? I doubt many have that as ready cash.

It’s household wealth (not individual) and it’s everything. Pension savings will be a significant part.

[vetran]

But you are using an unquantified intangible as a measure. Add up the money you've got in houses, cars, pension cash etc and see what it comes to and check against some of the graphs on this page. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...018tomarch2020

You might not think you are wealthy but I'll be betting you are ahead of 75% of the country ergo you are.

Disclaimer : I don't know your personal circumstances and the assumption is you've been on that awhile, haven't got a coke habit or a vindictive ex wife etc...

oh cheers interesting. I'm rich!

wow £302,000 as median wealth.

That would be the house then? I doubt many have that as ready cash.

[northernladuk]

it is the top tier of the top 1% earners. 321,000 people.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/201.../ineq-a17.html

I and assume most people on here are in the top 2-10% of earners, I consider myself very comfortable. I don't consider myself wealthy as I have to continue to work. That may change in the next few years. I know plenty of people with assets that don't need to work so you may be earning a good amount but not wealthy enough to retire.

But you are using an unquantified intangible as a measure. Add up the money you've got in houses, cars, pension cash etc and see what it comes to and check against some of the graphs on this page. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...018tomarch2020

You might not think you are wealthy but I'll be betting you are ahead of 75% of the country ergo you are.

Disclaimer : I don't know your personal circumstances and the assumption is you've been on that awhile, haven't got a coke habit or a vindictive ex wife etc...

[eek]

And the 60% income tax rate? That’s a new one too!

That’s roughly what it is when the income tax allowance is tapered away between £100,000 and £125,700 or so.