Reply to: If only they had had African Dads

[SueEllen]

As I said the Tories wouldn't complain if Dickens was removed
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...y-unpublished/

Charles Dickens condemned the slave trade as “inhuman” and an “atrocity” in a previously unpublished letter that has been discovered.

In 1850, he wrote to Captain Joseph Denman, who had served in the Royal Navy’s anti-slavery squadron that patrolled the coast of West Africa, part of the “African Blockade”, whose effectiveness in stopping the transportation of slaves sparked debate at the time.

Addressing him as “My dear Sir,” Dickens told him in no uncertain terms: “You cannot too strongly represent to yourself the horror with which I contemplate that atrocity the Slave Trade, – although I have (I must confess to you) had my doubts of the efficiency of the African Blockade. Of the truth and devotion of those engaged in it, I have never had a grain of distrust.”

He continued: “I am sure we shall agree in denouncing the inhuman traffic with our utmost might.”

The letter’s authenticity has been confirmed by a leading expert, Dr Leon Litvack, principal editor of The Charles Dickens Letters Project, an online resource for his correspondence.

He told The Telegraph that it adds to what we know about Dickens’ attitude to slavery: “There’s great passion in this letter. The language that he uses is striking in its forcefulness.”

He will deliver a paper on it on July 8 at a Dickens conference at City University in London.

The letter was spotted among Denman family papers by Dr Pieter van der Merwe, Greenwich Curator Emeritus of the National Maritime Museum, while conducting unrelated research. It was in a volume of miscellaneous examples from notable people of the time.

As a specialist in Clarkson Stanfield, the marine-artist friend of Dickens, Dr van der Merwe realised its significance: “I suspected it wasn’t known. It’s just serendipity, the art of finding things you’re not looking for.”

He contacted Dr Litvack to whom the Denman family has given permission to publish it on Dickensletters.com.

[hugebrain]

I firmly believe that English Literature should involve the study of literature written in English, not necessarily written by the English.

We had to read Dubliners which was some foreign crap.

[vetran]

Did you know that until his 'Inferno' there was no real homogenous view of what hell was, before it was just not being with god in heaven. All the visual depictions of hell post date Dante. Yet as he acknowledges in the poem he was guided by Virgil and his passage from the Aeneid where Aeneas is guided through the underworld by his father.

I discovered that after leaving school it would have been nice if such things had been shared during lessons. The influences of the classics are worthwhile exploring in context as well.

[Gibbon]

indeed so the great authors need to be in the mix, there is no reason they can't include Dante

Did you know that until his 'Inferno' there was no real homogenous view of what hell was, before it was just not being with god in heaven. All the visual depictions of hell post date Dante. Yet as he acknowledges in the poem he was guided by Virgil and his passage from the Aeneid where Aeneas is guided through the underworld by his father.

[vetran]

Whose purpose is to give a wide but simple foundation/cross-section.

indeed so the great authors need to be in the mix, there is no reason they can't include Dante & Voltaire to see how English literature is different and more recent ones to see how it has evolved. Maybe a poem from each poet laureate?

[d000hg]

we are talking about GCSE not evening class poetry appreciation.

Whose purpose is to give a wide but simple foundation/cross-section.

[vetran]

So uncultured.

we are talking about GCSE not evening class poetry appreciation.

[Gibbon]

Heaney, Joyce, Frost, CS Lewis… are they offensive to the Wail too?

but some times it helps to learn history in history classes, and literature in lit classes.

Really? You can't divorce the two once you go back further than the camera. The thing about studying the far past is it's less controversial politically and religiously, but the human part of the events is very similar and can be explored more objectively.

The Gracchi are great examples of political reform and the tensions between rich and poor, their failure to resolve the issues led to the raise of 'strong' men and ultimately the fall of the Roman Republic into a dictatorship.

[d000hg]

At least two classes in my school didn't study any Shakespeare for GCSE. Their teacher choose more modern works.

I am absolutely sure everyone did a Dickens novel.

I actually don't remember doing Dickens though we did at least one Shakespeare - we got a school cinema trip out of it to see that Romeo & Juliet film from the 90s.
Novels I can remember studying were Lord of the Flies and Brave New World. I think Animal Farm too and maybe An Inspector Calls.
Don't get anything from Shakespeare myself.

Is the move to include LGBT authors, or to include books which have strong LGBT messaging? I am guessing the latter.

[vetran]

Ah, so are you saying we should not just select them based on them being “war poets” or “ones Vetran has heard of”, but because their writing inspires, educates, etc?

Just want to check, because you seem to be contradicting your first post in this thread.

Maybe we should also ask “why were there few disabled people writing in the Victorian era?”
Is it because if you were disabled you didn’t get an education and were put in an institution?
Is “12 years a slave” worth studying, since it was from 1853, and there aren’t that many books from back then written by a person who was enslaved?

You seem to be floundering. You need to pay more attention Master Hell.

Well as the move is to make it contemporary then the victorian era isn't relevant.

12 years a slave would probably count as significant but as this is poetry it isn't relevant.

[d000hg]

study artists we have never heard of

So uncultured.

[WTFH]

Select them by quality not protected attributes.

Ah, so are you saying we should not just select them based on them being “war poets” or “ones Vetran has heard of”, but because their writing inspires, educates, etc?

Just want to check, because you seem to be contradicting your first post in this thread.

Maybe we should also ask “why were there few disabled people writing in the Victorian era?”
Is it because if you were disabled you didn’t get an education and were put in an institution?
Is “12 years a slave” worth studying, since it was from 1853, and there aren’t that many books from back then written by a person who was enslaved?

[vetran]

The only good book I read in English was All quiet on the Western front - written by a German.

Whichever Shakespeare play we studied was rubbish and The mayor of Casterbridge was tedious as hell.

If you want kids to engage then give them something that interests them - not a load of borax.

Sad you had a rubbish teacher. Comparing Chaucer, Shakespeare, Hardy, Owen & Larkin documents the evolution of English literature. If you talk to anyone with even a minimal education they will recognise these as the greats. You of course studied Beowulf?

By all means include more recent poets as the next step in the process, but don't remove people who have created prose that has driven English around the world.

Maybe a war poem by a foreign born soldier to compare with Owen? Or from WWII to compare the language & experiences?

Select them by quality not protected attributes.

[SueEllen]

I don't remember studying Shakespeare at school.

At least two classes in my school didn't study any Shakespeare for GCSE. Their teacher choose more modern works.

I am absolutely sure everyone did a Dickens novel.

[ladymuck]

I don't remember studying Shakespeare at school.

That said, I don't remember anything I studied at school.

I firmly believe that English Literature should involve the study of literature written in English, not necessarily written by the English.