Reply to: Buy Electric Cars and save on running costs

[Paddy]

Electric-vehicle maker Tesla, which is now worth more than $1 trillion, ranked 27th out of the 28 brands Consumer Reports considered this year. Lincoln was the sole brand that got a lower reliability score from the nonprofit organization.

Consumer Reports uses surveys to find out the types of issues vehicle owners have experienced in the last 12 months. It uses that data to predict how reliable carmakers' 2022 models will be and gives each vehicle a score.

Tesla's Model S, Model Y, and Model X all got below-average reliability scores, dragging down the brand's overall standing. Consumer Reports still recommends the 2022 Model 3 sedan, which has average reliability.

https://www.businessinsider.com/

[d000hg]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...t-classic-mini

*cough*

Like I said, I wonder if it'll become mainstream. This sort of thing indicates it certainly could, but would it be worthwhile - and would the faster switch to EV be supportable anyway?

[_V_]

I wonder if we might end up dropping fuel duty and road tax, and just having a mileage tax based on your emissions. Although I still think paying a tax surcharge depending what you use your electricity FOR is wrong. Not a fan of a back-door to track every vehicle which is what this would be.

Long term many predict a huge decline in personal car ownership as self-driving matures, even to the point cars might be something mainly owned for recreation, like horses.

I've also heard talk of retrofitting EV to existing chassis. Rip out the engine and fuel tank and bodge an EV drive-train. It's already happening at the bespoke end of the market I wonder if it could become mainstream.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...t-classic-mini

*cough*

[d000hg]

Jag will do a conversion for your E Type. £1M.

You should be able to DIY it (if you're a competent mechanic) assuming you can buy the parts. An EV is in some ways simpler than a normal car. A mate was curious to look into it for his van, since E-Vans are impossibly expensive. He routinely lifts engines and changes things, reckons it wouldn't be too tricky.

[NigelJK]

Jag will do a conversion for your E Type. £1M.

[d000hg]

I wonder if we might end up dropping fuel duty and road tax, and just having a mileage tax based on your emissions. Although I still think paying a tax surcharge depending what you use your electricity FOR is wrong. Not a fan of a back-door to track every vehicle which is what this would be.

Long term many predict a huge decline in personal car ownership as self-driving matures, even to the point cars might be something mainly owned for recreation, like horses.

I've also heard talk of retrofitting EV to existing chassis. Rip out the engine and fuel tank and bodge an EV drive-train. It's already happening at the bespoke end of the market I wonder if it could become mainstream.

[d000hg]

Shall I pre-empt the retort "good luck driving when it's not windy" or do you want to do it?

It doesn't matter how much wind generation potential we have, the excess generation can't be stored, so if it's very windy much of it goes to waste, and if it isn't windy, we get powercuts.

OK then.

[NigelJK]

My Jag is 20 YO next year. Made of aluminium it will go on for many more years yet. The engine is a marvel of technology and for a 300bhp 4.2L V8 returns a very reasonable 35 mpg on a run.

I think it might concentrate minds a bit if the petrol retailers were allowed to put the real costs on the receipts so you could see what the real cost is:

https://www.racfoundation.org/wp-con...fact_sheet.pdf


Mileage tax is fairer for all and you will be able to see what is cost and what is the Chancellor shoving his hand in your pocket.

I'll revert to my usual response in these situations. The root cause of planetary issues is too many humans. Until you tackle that all others issues are the stuff of nonsense.

[vetran]

It doesn't matter how much wind generation potential we have, the excess generation can't be stored, so if it's very windy much of it goes to waste, and if it isn't windy, we get powercuts. The Green policy seems to be running faster than the technology to make it actually work can keep up with it.

See the pumping genius thread and mentions of hydrogen generation. Just because we don't store it doesn't mean we can't.

[Mordac]

You are perhaps unaware the scale of wind development. I know I was. It's immense and accelerating.

Shall I pre-empt the retort "good luck driving when it's not windy" or do you want to do it?

It doesn't matter how much wind generation potential we have, the excess generation can't be stored, so if it's very windy much of it goes to waste, and if it isn't windy, we get powercuts. The Green policy seems to be running faster than the technology to make it actually work can keep up with it.

[d000hg]

Lead acid recycling is still in its infancy it was about 15 years ago when people began to buy spent batteries to recycle (previously companies had to pay to dispose of them) and that is a hundreds of year old technology. Because of the price of lead, the majority of lead acid batteries it has become viable to recycle. Cobalt and other metals in EV batteries are a very small part its cheaper to just dump them the recycling will need to be encouraged by taxing disposal.

Quite likely, or simply banning it. That said while the amount of rare earth metals used is low, they are hard to mine in the first place. I think we can expect to see some people make a fortune out of this, maybe even buying up old batteries.

It's definitely going to become a big problem otherwise.

[vetran]

Quite right but I think the moment it becomes financially rewarding, this problem will be solved. The 'market' for old EV batteries is set to explode which means the profits to be made will be gigantic.

Lead acid recycling is still in its infancy it was about 15 years ago when people began to buy spent batteries to recycle (previously companies had to pay to dispose of them) and that is a hundreds of year old technology. Because of the price of lead, the majority of lead acid batteries it has become viable to recycle. Cobalt and other metals in EV batteries are a very small part its cheaper to just dump them the recycling will need to be encouraged by taxing disposal.

Replacing one lead acid battery in a string is only normally done when it fails early, if they have reached their design life 2/5 or 10 years then they are stripped down for their metals. Entire battery packs will be swapped out and new fitted, what we need on EVs is smaller packs that are monitored so they can be swapped independently that are bridged so they are isolated.

[AtW]

I reckon they will tax motorists on annual mileage when most people have shifted to electricity.

Why wait?

HTH

HM Threasury

[Paralytic]

there's no easy way to distinguish between the car and your freezer.

I'd check for which one has more wheels.

[d000hg]

That depends on where you charge up. If you have a charging point at home, there's no easy way to distinguish between the car and your freezer.

But you're still paying for the electricity.