Reply to: Northern Ireland

[Zigenare]

and every time you think you've solved the Irish problem, the Irish change the problem!

Northern or Southern?

[OwlHoot]

Yup. Anyone who says the Ireland problem is easily solved doesn't understand the problem.

and every time you think you've solved the Irish problem, the Irish change the problem!

[Zigenare]

Jesus. Does nobody ever read any history?

"The victory motivated more nations to join the alliance and in effect ended the fear of a French conquest of Europe."

[vetran]

Gosh, after converting to Christianity 20 years ago, reading and studying bible since I'd never noticed that.

This is a bit like when I mention to the Tesco driver I'm in software dev and he launches into his opinions on which programming language is best from a 4 week course he did once.

Any more mind-bombs for us? Perhaps you'd like to shockingly reveal that Jesus was in fact Jewish?

Oh nice sarcasm, no turning the other cheek? I suggest you

I was raised Christian realised after about 20 years that God either has a sick sense of humour or doesn't exist so became agnostic 20 years ago, then Atheist about 4-5 years ago, does that make me an expert and can I sneer at you now as I believe you are seriously misguided?

You stated the troubles had nothing to do with religion, most major conflicts include a massive religious content whether its used for recruitment, morality in conflict (would the Geneva convention exist without well meaning holy men?) etc..The troubles most definitely have a significant religious component. The sooner we realise that and work to remove bellum sacrum the better. Yep even the Romans understood religion and war were entwined.

If you don't want to discuss religion with those who you consider ill informed then don't raise it or assert its not part of the problems when it is heavily documented as being a major part.

[WTFH]

If you think this was all settled 350 years ago you're a bigger idiot that I thought, Catholics in the Northern were, and are still regularly discriminated against either explicitly through recruitment practices or through non-direct routes like economic spending in Catholic Areas

And I say this as loyalist!

Yup. Anyone who says the Ireland problem is easily solved doesn't understand the problem.

[malvolio]

If you think this was all settled 350 years ago you're a bigger idiot that I thought, Catholics in the Northern were, and are still regularly discriminated against either explicitly through recruitment practices or through non-direct routes like economic spending in Catholic Areas

And I say this as loyalist!

Yes, I fully agree - and that is because?

Perhaps continuing to fight battles long after they were fought is a hint as to why Northern Ireland is in such a mess. When people get elected on the basis of their side of the religious divide, it is not the sign of a mature population. It's no different to colour or any other other prejudice based on meaningless perceived differences.

Just for balance, the wife's family are all Catholic. Got dragged along to a Mass once when over there (only to be polite, organised religion has zero interest for me)and was utterly appalled by the sermon from the priest. It didn't reflect any kind of Christianity I would recognise.

[WTFH]

Any more mind-bombs for us? Perhaps you'd like to shockingly reveal that Jesus was in fact Jewish?

Give him a while, he's just reading about where bears defecate. This could be a breakthrough.

[SimonMac]

Not really, I've read a few books on the subject, from Boyne up to the Easter Rising. I was routinely working in Belfast in the early 80s as well, so I have a bit more of an interest than most non-Irish, although mostly my interest was around the wider questions of the unification arguments.

That said, I still think trying to base your life and beliefs around something that was settled 350 years ago is more than a little selfish (it applies to the Scots and quite a few Welsh as well). It doesn't survive by itself, it's handed on as tradition across the generations. In reality, it's nothing more than an excuse for the local criminals to claim a political motivation. The reunification argument is a whole other issue in a modern democracy.

If you think this was all settled 350 years ago you're a bigger idiot that I thought, Catholics in the Northern were, and are still regularly discriminated against either explicitly through recruitment practices or through non-direct routes like economic spending in Catholic Areas

And I say this as loyalist!

[d000hg]

You do know Islam , Judaism and Christianity actually have the same GOD? strange that they hate each other in many cases.

Gosh, after converting to Christianity 20 years ago, reading and studying bible since I'd never noticed that.

This is a bit like when I mention to the Tesco driver I'm in software dev and he launches into his opinions on which programming language is best from a 4 week course he did once.

Any more mind-bombs for us? Perhaps you'd like to shockingly reveal that Jesus was in fact Jewish?

[malvolio]

And you can see on the very page you linked that the French were one of the main Belligerents (with the Dutch the other)

I'm guessing you just know the Cliff Notes version of history

Not really, I've read a few books on the subject, from Boyne up to the Easter Rising. I was routinely working in Belfast in the early 80s as well, so I have a bit more of an interest than most non-Irish, although mostly my interest was around the wider questions of the unification arguments.

That said, I still think trying to base your life and beliefs around something that was settled 350 years ago is more than a little selfish (it applies to the Scots and quite a few Welsh as well). It doesn't survive by itself, it's handed on as tradition across the generations. In reality, it's nothing more than an excuse for the local criminals to claim a political motivation. The reunification argument is a whole other issue in a modern democracy.

[SimonMac]

Jesus. Does nobody ever read any history?

And you can see on the very page you linked that the French were one of the main Belligerents (with the Dutch the other)

I'm guessing you just know the Cliff Notes version of history

[SueEllen]

I made exactly the same suggestion (at the top of my voice) while watching a Wales-Ireland 6 Nations match in an Irish bar in Brussels a few years ago. It went down very well with the green clad drunken masses.
Bar got a bit quiet when I added how good it would be to see the Union Jack flying over Dublin again

And you lived to tell the tale?

You should try out for Team GB sprint squad.

[David71]

Time for re-unification.

I made exactly the same suggestion (at the top of my voice) while watching a Wales-Ireland 6 Nations match in an Irish bar in Brussels a few years ago. It went down very well with the green clad drunken masses.
Bar got a bit quiet when I added how good it would be to see the Union Jack flying over Dublin again

[malvolio]

When William gave the French a bashing?

Jesus. Does nobody ever read any history?

[Zigenare]

Funny. Most of the Northern Irish I know (and the wife's family lives in Belfast) are acutely aware of the religion of their neighbours. My cousin-in-law is a retired RUC sergeant and has very clear ideas on the causes of the Troubles. It goes a lot deeper than simply not liking the other version of Christianity, on both sides. In fact it goes back about 332 years. Unless and until they can get away from that kind of thinking, there will always be conflict.

When William gave the French a bashing?