Reply to: So, anyone watch the F1 yesterday?

[d000hg]

Oh Lewis thinks it is a sham, like many other drivers. But he knows the spotlight he's in and takes his role-model status seriously especially to black kids, and the importance of sportsmanship. It's his team's job to fight it, not his. I note even Toto went to congratulate Max - they have no beef with him.

[malvolio]

Agreed. He handled that with far better grace than I think I could have mustered - kudos to him.

I was wondering whether there is any precedent for honouring a leader in these sorts of situations - as in, Max just holding back and letting Lewis win given the unfairness of the situation (of which he must have been aware). If he'd done that he could have aquired legend status himself, and still gone on to have a very good career I'm sure. I wonder if Lewis would have done it if the situation was reversed.

Agreed - although I suspect what Lewis says in public and what he says in private may show a degree of divergence. You don't get to achieve what he or any other world champion has without a fairly high degree of self belief, and many drivers have said that they put winning first and everything else nowhere.

[d000hg]

Agreed. He handled that with far better grace than I think I could have mustered - kudos to him.

I was wondering whether there is any precedent for honouring a leader in these sorts of situations - as in, Max just holding back and letting Lewis win given the unfairness of the situation (of which he must have been aware). If he'd done that he could have aquired legend status himself, and still gone on to have a very good career I'm sure. I wonder if Lewis would have done it if the situation was reversed.

In some circumstances. We have had drivers pull over to check on someone else who crashed before.
In this case, the sportsman has to go with what's happening. Remember it was very chaotic and changing by the moment - up until the last moment - so trying to second guess the situation could make you look daft. Red Bull brought Max in hoping he would get just that chance, neither of them would have behaved differently if the situation was reversed. It'd be like refusing to take a penalty you weren't sure was legitimate... your job is to take it, and let the decision be reviewed afterwards if deemed necessary.

[mattster]

In some ways Lewis has come out on top, because he's shown

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster

And treat those two impostors just the same; (Kipling)

Which is a greater achievement than any shiny bangles.

Agreed. He handled that with far better grace than I think I could have mustered - kudos to him.

I was wondering whether there is any precedent for honouring a leader in these sorts of situations - as in, Max just holding back and letting Lewis win given the unfairness of the situation (of which he must have been aware). If he'd done that he could have aquired legend status himself, and still gone on to have a very good career I'm sure. I wonder if Lewis would have done it if the situation was reversed.

[d000hg]

In some ways Lewis has come out on top, because he's shown

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster

And treat those two impostors just the same; (Kipling)

Which is a greater achievement than any shiny bangles.

Plus he just got knighted, which must be surreal.

[Gibbon]

In some ways Lewis has come out on top, because he's shown

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster

And treat those two impostors just the same; (Kipling)

Which is a greater achievement than any shiny bangles.

[malvolio]

Or for that matter if Max hadn't come in for new tyres and still managed to pass Lewis on the last lap

Or if Lewis had stopped and changed tyres, meaning Max would have stayed out, and then the two would have had a race to the end...

Point is - and something that may well come up in later discussions - is that Sainz in third in the Ferrari could probably have challenged Max over that lap if he didn't have lapped cars in the way. That, as much as the arbitrary change of mind by Masi, is the real argument. You're not supposed to favour one outcome over another.

[Whorty]

Or for that matter if Max hadn't come in for new tyres and still managed to pass Lewis on the last lap

Or if MV had been gaining on LH by 2 seconds a lap, and there was only 5 laps left so the 10 second gap was feasible to close. But the situation was that MV was never going to close the gap, bit FIA closed it for him.

I'm not an F1 fan usually, not seen it in decades. Won't be watching again for another few decades after that spectacle.

[d000hg]

Had Lewis won behind the safety car at least I would have thought it was a good outcome.

Or for that matter if Max hadn't come in for new tyres and still managed to pass Lewis on the last lap

[GregRickshaw]

Another key point which is somewhat lost is that there were lapped cars between Lewis (1st) and Max (2nd) but also between Max and the Ferrari of Sainz (3rd). The former were told to get out of the way but not the latter. If this was not the case it's entirely possible that Sainz could have overtaken Max, or tussled with him, preventing his easy pass on Lewis.

Effectively the FIA set things up so we were guaranteed a "final lap shootout" between Lewis and Max with all other cars kept out of the picture so they couldn't spoil it. Except it wasn't a final lap shootout, because of the tyre difference - new viewers might have thought it was very exciting to see them 'fight' the last lap but everyone who knows the sport knew Max would easily overtake unless Lewis crashed into him.

As I have said I'm not an F1 aficionado and not really a 'fan' as a casual observer and just looking for something to watch out of interest (I kind of used to like F1) the end spectacle was not exciting or fulfilling which is a shame really as it means I simply won't bother with it again.

Had Lewis won behind the safety car at least I would have thought it was a good outcome.

[AtW]

Maybe this isn't the best forum to complain about the perceived tax efficiencies of others?

Did you ask BrilloPad about it?

[d000hg]

Another key point which is somewhat lost is that there were lapped cars between Lewis (1st) and Max (2nd) but also between Max and the Ferrari of Sainz (3rd). The former were told to get out of the way but not the latter. If this was not the case it's entirely possible that Sainz could have overtaken Max, or tussled with him, preventing his easy pass on Lewis.

Effectively the FIA set things up so we were guaranteed a "final lap shootout" between Lewis and Max with all other cars kept out of the picture so they couldn't spoil it. Except it wasn't a final lap shootout, because of the tyre difference - new viewers might have thought it was very exciting to see them 'fight' the last lap but everyone who knows the sport knew Max would easily overtake unless Lewis crashed into him.

[d000hg]

Maybe this isn't the best forum to complain about the perceived tax efficiencies of others?

Please don't feed the troll.

[TheDude]

Tax dodging **** lost for a change, which is nice.

Maybe this isn't the best forum to complain about the perceived tax efficiencies of others?

[d000hg]

Anyway, I am done having this idiotic discussion with you.

I really hope so. Someone please ask him to stop. He can have his own thread if he likes, just **** out of this one.