Reply to: Recycling Plastics Doesn't Work

[jayn200]

Not true.
Consumers can choose to buy products with less plastic on them. Individuals - including you - aren't forced to buy from a particular supplier, you could do research and buy off businesses that use less or no plastic.

But that requires effort and people taking responsibility for their actions, when it's always easier to blame someone else.

That's not true at all. Most products don't have a plastic free option that's readily available. You would have to do extensive research and order online at probably a very high premium to get a plastic free option. If it was right next to the other product on the shelf and similar priced then of course you could say it's a consumer choice but that's rarely the case... only exception I can think of is possibly produce and lots of consumers do choose to buy produce that is out of packaging (although transport to store for some produce still has plastic packaging).

[vetran]

That's pretty much what I said in the first sentence of my second paragraph (re-read what you quoted). Thank you for mansplaining, I'm much clearer now about what I said.

lets repeat that sentence You are confused about:

Manufacturers and resellers will not change until people stop buying from them.

and mine

Actually manufacturers will change when people look like they will stop buying from them or there is a niche in the market.

Nice bit of Misandry there, assume because you are incorrect it is a misunderstanding because of disparate genders and most importantly I'm not female.

You sentence suggested that people will have to stop buying from them for their attitude to change. As I have already pointed out many supermarkets are doing this as part of making their business more attractive to customers i.e. so people start buying or continue buying from them.

Companies I have worked with / for have actively looked for ways to cut waste and pollution as it has frequently saved costs, disposal is a cost for instance we reduced waste costs in the warehouse by £10s of thousands. Using less packing materials not only saved money (cheaper recycled materials were used e.g. cast cardboard (free to dispose of) rather than expanded foam business (cost to dispose) - it also saved the planet). As they redesigned with eco friendly packing they also sometimes found it to be lighter and smaller saving shipping costs.

It was also frequently required that we demonstrated such activities in tenders to large organisations.

Waitrose and Sainsburys haven't had a massive drop in sales because they wrap apples in plastic, they worked out its a marketing move and possibly cheaper.

Not buying is not the only lever as suggested above, soft power works as well.

[ladymuck]

Actually manufacturers will change when people look like they will stop buying from them or there is a niche in the market.

That's pretty much what I said in the first sentence of my second paragraph (re-read what you quoted). Thank you for mansplaining, I'm much clearer now about what I said.

[vetran]

Basically, it takes time, money and effort to eradicate plastic but it's cheap, easy and quick to stick with the status quo.

Manufacturers and resellers will not change until people stop buying from them. That won't happen because people are poor, lazy or simply don't know how to get the information they could use to make alternative choices. Biodegradable plastics - can't go in the recycling, has to be commercially composted, no collection system exists so what do you do with it? You can think you're buying wisely but it takes a lot of work to find out if you are or not.

We're all very privileged here, don't forget.

Actually manufacturers will change when people look like they will stop buying from them or there is a niche in the market.

[vetran]

The Oceans are in crisis but it's not US that are responsible for it and we need to have that conversation:

https://theoceancleanup.com/sources/

I was involved in conservation projects in the early 2000s in parts of Asia. The governments there really don't care and it's a very serious problem. Banning straws here is a drop in the ocean - literally.

OK so its the China effect our volume of dumping is dwarfed by theirs. We do however need to clean up our act whilst we moan at them.

[ladymuck]

Basically, it takes time, money and effort to eradicate plastic but it's cheap, easy and quick to stick with the status quo.

Manufacturers and resellers will not change until people stop buying from them. That won't happen because people are poor, lazy or simply don't know how to get the information they could use to make alternative choices. Biodegradable plastics - can't go in the recycling, has to be commercially composted, no collection system exists so what do you do with it? You can think you're buying wisely but it takes a lot of work to find out if you are or not.

We're all very privileged here, don't forget.

[Mordac]

Not true.
Consumers can choose to buy products with less plastic on them. Individuals - including you - aren't forced to buy from a particular supplier, you could do research and buy off businesses that use less or no plastic.

But that requires effort and people taking responsibility for their actions, when it's always easier to blame someone else.

True, but that involves driving to several different suppliers - and if they are on the High St, that usually means extra parking charges as well. Most normal people have to go to supermarkets, and that means you get what they present you with. Depending on where you live, that choice of supermarket might be limited to very few.
Not everyone can achieve your level of self-righteous smugness. Personally, I don't even aspire to it.

[TwoWolves]

The Oceans are in crisis but it's not US that are responsible for it and we need to have that conversation:

https://theoceancleanup.com/sources/

I was involved in conservation projects in the early 2000s in parts of Asia. The governments there really don't care and it's a very serious problem. Banning straws here is a drop in the ocean - literally.

[ladymuck]

Sorry, I don't mean to be preachy, and I realise that not everyone can do it, but if each individual tries to do something, then it helps.

I agree with this - working through the various challenges that are presented when trying to reduce plastic use is all part of educating people.

Sadly, it will be those at the poorer end of society who will struggle the most to make the changes needed.

If you can afford to spend a little more to reduce plastic then you really ought to. There is no justifiable reason why not.

[vetran]

Do you not think if that was really the case, then manufacturers etc would not already be doing this?

Waitrose and ALDi already are.

https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/news/s...able-rankings/

But if everyone switches costs go down.

[Paralytic]

Actually it doesn't . Going green can mean going cheaper.

Do you not think if that was really the case, then manufacturers etc would not already be doing this?

[vetran]

FTFY

Actually it doesn't . Going green can mean going cheaper.

[Paralytic]

That requires the public to make it clear they are willing to pay more for it.

FTFY

[vetran]

Not true.
Consumers can choose to buy products with less plastic on them. Individuals - including you - aren't forced to buy from a particular supplier, you could do research and buy off businesses that use less or no plastic.

But that requires effort and people taking responsibility for their actions, when it's always easier to blame someone else.

It would really help if the big suppliers decided that using less plastic was a differentiating move.

That requires the public to make it clear they want it.

[WTFH]

I suspect it's also more expensive to buy those reduced plastic products and, especially for fresh produce, plastics are used to prolong shelf life which would require people to think about buying little and often which itself can be more expensive.

Yes, for some things (such as fresh produce), it requires a bit of thought - although some companies now use compostable bags for their fresh, so once you've bought your bag of lemons for your gin, you can use the bag for food waste.

For other products - e.g. toilet roll - either choose one that comes in paper wrapping (e.g. Who Gives A Crap) or compostable wrapping.
Also you can buy cleaning products as concentrates that can be diluted down into reusable bottles, and beeswax paper that is a reusable alternate to clingfilm.
And if you have the opportunity, buy milk from a local farm vending machine - e.g. https://www.theudderstuff.co.uk

Sorry, I don't mean to be preachy, and I realise that not everyone can do it, but if each individual tries to do something, then it helps.
When it comes to food & drink, I'm trying to eat fresh, eat local, eat seasonal.