Reply to: Working 2 contracts inside IR35

[northernladuk]

Judging by the original question, the client would not be aware...

Yup.

In 100% of these questions, and we've had a lot of them recently, they never are. We never got any questions about multiple outside contracts before the pandemic. Every single question is borne out of the fact the contractor isn't on client site so can wag it is as much as they want. Non of these are situations where a contractor can successfully deliver value to both clients, they are all about can they get away with doing another clients work on the other ones time because they aren't on site.

[ladymuck]

so long as the client is aware.

Judging by the original question, the client would not be aware...

[vetran]

Then you get the story about the chap who outsourced his job and ultimately got found out when security checked the VPN logs...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21043693

He wasn't even working two jobs, just didn't want to do the one he had.

By your argument, the client should be perfectly happy with this as the work is being done.

so long as the client is aware.

[vetran]

Key thing here is that even inside IR35 someone is not an employee.

Its entirely possible to charge piecework if the piece is work equivalent to a unit of time and its agreed then no fraud.

[ladymuck]

Agreed, its not like the lady in the news article that the person is claiming 2 timesheets and sunning themselves at a beach . As long as the work gets delivered and is on time and is of required standard, should the client really care how many hours are spent?

Then you get the story about the chap who outsourced his job and ultimately got found out when security checked the VPN logs...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21043693

He wasn't even working two jobs, just didn't want to do the one he had.

By your argument, the client should be perfectly happy with this as the work is being done.

[NotAllThere]

That maybe the case but an IR35 contract is very similar to any other employment contract, and if you don't work the hours you say you did, you can end up in jail.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...-after-5282574

That case is where the woman set out to defraud her employer. She wasn't even present for the claimed time! It's different when the employer views timesheets as just a way of approving work done. Then there is no intent to deceive.

In any case, what defines a worked hour? Being present? Being at the computer or in meetings - i.e. not on the bog, or having a coffee, or calling your better half (or all three simultaneously? ).

I don't disagree that you have to be careful to honour your contracts and not lie, it's just I don't believe it's quite as black and white as you seem to think.

I doubt you have worked on inside gigs though have you?

True enough.

I'll shut up now.

[BlasterBates]

And offshore IT resource providers.
Depends. If you charge by the hour or part thereof and do 5 minutes for 12 clients, that's an hour on each timesheet. Even more so for "professional" days. Most clients I've ever worked for were only concerned that the work was done to schedule.

That maybe the case but an IR35 contract is very similar to any other employment contract, and if you don't work the hours you say you did, you can end up in jail.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...-after-5282574

[northernladuk]

And offshore IT resource providers.
Depends. If you charge by the hour or part thereof and do 5 minutes for 12 clients, that's an hour on each timesheet. Even more so for "professional" days. Most clients I've ever worked for were only concerned that the work was done to schedule.

I doubt you have worked on inside gigs though have you?

[NotAllThere]

The only profession allowed to charge two clients for 40 hours of work concurrently are solicitors.

And offshore IT resource providers.

It is legal to work on two contracts at the same time but don't double book on your timesheets. Falsifying timesheets is fraud and is a criminal offence.

Depends. If you charge by the hour or part thereof and do 5 minutes for 12 clients, that's an hour on each timesheet. Even more so for "professional" days. Most clients I've ever worked for were only concerned that the work was done to schedule.

[BlasterBates]

It is legal to work on two contracts at the same time but don't double book on your timesheets. Falsifying timesheets is fraud and is a criminal offence.

[vetran]

QED.

(I bet Whorty was one of them)

There is a reason why agents are called pimps!

Not warty they were big & reputable.

[Paralytic]

And prostitutes specialising in multi-client markets.

wrong. I have happily charged two clients at once.

QED.

(I bet Whorty was one of them)

[vetran]

The only profession allowed to charge two clients for 40 hours of work concurrently are solicitors.

wrong. I have happily charged two clients at once.

[Paralytic]

The only profession allowed to charge two clients for 40 hours of work concurrently are solicitors.

And prostitutes specialising in multi-client markets.

[northernladuk]

Pedantic point, but a breach of contract is not likely to be "illegal" or even unlawful. This would be a civil law matter, if at all.

That's a good point. I must admit when I was writing that I wondered breach of contract law fell in to legal which it doesn't so thanks for pointing that out. Bearing in mind everyone that asks if something is 'illegal' they generally mean is it wrong and can I get in trouble so the answer is still yes.