Reply to: oh those racist Danes!

[NotAllThere]

Sorry NAT, but you're wrong saying Vetran is right. The NHS is an operational BAU organisation. In itself it is not a project. Building a new A&E unit is a project, implementing a new cancer ward is a project. But once they go 'live' the project is over and it becomes BAU. It really is quite simple

NOT IF YOU FOLLOW THE DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF A PROJECT!

oh ffs!

You lot are funny.

[NotAllThere]

i love it when the thickos argue.
especially when the Basel biblebasher joins in!

all we need now is the durham druid for a full house.

You have a natural talent for alliteration. BBB, DD.

[BR14]

i love it when the thickos argue.
especially when the Basel biblebasher joins in!

all we need now is the durham druid for a full house.

[vetran]

Sorry NAT, but you're wrong saying Vetran is right. The NHS is an operational BAU organisation. In itself it is not a project. Building a new A&E unit is a project, implementing a new cancer ward is a project. But once they go 'live' the project is over and it becomes BAU. It really is quite simple

NOT IF YOU FOLLOW THE DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF A PROJECT!

oh ffs!

[Whorty]

Dreary me. Wjorty is right - a project has an aim. When that is achieved (or earlier if the project is cancelled), the project is over. Therefore projects are temporary in their very nature.

vetran is right - there are projects with ostensible aims that nonetheless never achieve them, are never likely to achieve them, and as such, become never ending (non temporary) projects.

A project should be temporary, but some are so long term that the sun will consume the earth as a red giant before they can end.

So you can stop or and instead

Sorry NAT, but you're wrong saying Vetran is right. The NHS is an operational BAU organisation. In itself it is not a project. Building a new A&E unit is a project, implementing a new cancer ward is a project. But once they go 'live' the project is over and it becomes BAU. It really is quite simple

[Whorty]

show me a definition that proves Whorty is not a thicky.

If you have to add a stipulation that a project is temporary in its charter that obviously means a project is not by default temporary. Try using both brain cells.

I have no problem with good project managers its just that they are so rare and I have to put up with poorly defined projects that they fail to manage. Honestly I think you and Assgoo could do a better job than some I work with even after a lobotomy.

Do you even understand what you are writing? You really are showing yourself up here fella.

As you didn't like the PRINCE2 definition of a project, how about these definitions?

Things that we do (or work that we do) which is routine and regular are not projects. Things that repeat for ever, are not projects. But, things that are done towards a one-time effort, done seeking a specific outcome are projects.

or this

A project is a temporary venture to produce a new and unique deliverable. A deliverable could be a tangible product, a service or achievement of a required outcome.

or this directly from PMI's PMBOK .... but I'm sure you'll tell us next that you know better than the PMI?

According to the PMBOK^® Guide—Fourth edition (PMI, 2008a, p. 434) the definition of a project is “a temporary endeavor undertaken to create a unique project service or result.” Projects are temporary and close down on the completion of the work they were chartered to deliver.

Flipping 'eck, I knew you were a bit dim, but this really does take the biscuit (oh, and the production like at McVities is also not a project)

[NotAllThere]

Dreary me. Wjorty is right - a project has an aim. When that is achieved (or earlier if the project is cancelled), the project is over. Therefore projects are temporary in their very nature.

vetran is right - there are projects with ostensible aims that nonetheless never achieve them, are never likely to achieve them, and as such, become never ending (non temporary) projects.

A project should be temporary, but some are so long term that the sun will consume the earth as a red giant before they can end.

So you can stop or and instead

[vetran]

Go on then, I'll bite ... show us a link to a definition of a project that is not temporary.

And I'll show you hundreds of definitions of projects that all state that they are temporary.

I think I may have identified why you don't get on with project managers

show me a definition that proves Whorty is not a thicky.

If you have to add a stipulation that a project is temporary in its charter that obviously means a project is not by default temporary. Try using both brain cells.

I have no problem with good project managers its just that they are so rare and I have to put up with poorly defined projects that they fail to manage. Honestly I think you and Assgoo could do a better job than some I work with even after a lobotomy.

[Whorty]

the brains in this one are weak.

Projects as defined in English are not just temporary.

Go on then, I'll bite ... show us a link to a definition of a project that is not temporary.

And I'll show you hundreds of definitions of projects that all state that they are temporary.

I think I may have identified why you don't get on with project managers

[Whorty]

the brains in this one are weak.

Projects as defined in English are not just temporary.

A project, by its very definition, is temporary with a defined start and end date.

The NHS is an organisation that does run projects, but in itself is not a project (it's not a programme or portfolio either although that would be less idiotic to argue).

How do you get through each day, being so dim? I assume you wear slip on shoes as laces would just confuse you!

[vetran]

Man, you really are showing your level of intelligence today!

No one said that projects are all IT based you imbecile. The NHS is NOT a project.

Are you really this dim at work too? To help you along, I've provided you with a direct quote from PRINCE2 ... you may actually learn something today after all.

the brains in this one are weak.

Projects as defined in English are not just temporary.

[Whorty]

Unsurprisingly you are both wrong just because you believe a project is only like an IT project the English language begs to differ.

The NHS is and always should be a project. Currently failing in the carefully planned part the aim is also poorly defined.

Man, you really are showing your level of intelligence today!

No one said that projects are all IT based you imbecile. The NHS is NOT a project.

Are you really this dim at work too? To help you along, I've provided you with a direct quote from PRINCE2 ... you may actually learn something today after all.

PRINCE2 project definition: A project is a temporary organization that is created for the purpose of delivering one or more business products according to an agreed business case.

• The word organization refers to the project team (people involved in the project)
• The word temporary refers to the fact that each project as a definite start and end date.
• The business case includes: reasons for the project, expected benefits, costs and time

[vetran]

Unsurprisingly you are both wrong just because you believe a project is only like an IT project the English language begs to differ.

project noun - an individual or collaborative enterprise that is carefully planned to achieve a particular aim.

The NHS is and always should be a project. Currently failing in the carefully planned part the aim is also poorly defined.

If the government is the person signing the checks what happens when tax revenues fall because people don't want to pay for the NHS?

BOJO maybe laughable but the opposition was worse.

[Whorty]

The only fool around here is anyone blindly supporting a project with ever spiralling costs and diminishing returns known as the NHS.

As pointed out already, the NHS is not a project. Even you know that the definition (among others) of a project is something with a defined start and end date. Now, I know the Tories can't be trusted with the NHS but even they don't have an end date for it.

Can you support your "ever spiralling costs" with some facts?

Can you support your "diminishing returns" with some facts?

Unwilling to benchmark or learn from its peers now those that pay for it are starting to question it.

Who are peers to the NHS that they should benchmark?

How do you know that they don't benchmark in certain areas?

This is normally a good thing on a failing project unless the project team cover their ears and shout "nah nah nah I'm not listening" or "you are wrong how dare you question the sacred project".

Anyone can question a projects validity and their questions may or may not be taken seriously but the one who signs the cheques ultimately gets to can the project.

We've already proven that it's not a project

We are actually free to question our elected representatives via the ballot box however most people understand that sacking the only vaguely decent PM / project staff we have is no way to get any one of the 30 projects they are working on back on track. Lobbying them on a specific issue is normally a better choice.

BoJo as vaguely decent is laughable. He's a bare fast liar, but if that's what you think makes a good PM then crack on.

Utter rubbish on the 'project' staff bit again. You really are desperate to get a point across, that it makes zero sense what you are saying.

[d000hg]

The only fool around here is anyone blindly supporting a project with ever spiralling costs and diminishing returns known as the NHS. Unwilling to benchmark or learn from its peers now those that pay for it are starting to question it. This is normally a good thing on a failing project unless the project team cover their ears and shout "nah nah nah I'm not listening" or "you are wrong how dare you question the sacred project".

Again, you're making up arguments to argue with, nobody has said that.

Anyone can question a projects validity and their questions may or may not be taken seriously but the one who signs the cheques ultimately gets to can the project.

Again, your heavily biased position is exposed in poor logic. The NHS is not 'a project'. And if it were, the person 'signing the cheques' is the government. You do NOT pay for the NHS. You pay taxes to central government, and they decide what to spend it on. Like investing in a fund in your ISA, you do not get to decide what the fund manager does. You put the money in, they make the decisions.

We are actually free to question our elected representatives via the ballot box

As you pointed out, it's not free. Someone has to pay for it I suppose you think that you should get more votes because you earn what you think to be a lot.