Reply to: Foreign nurses and doctors no longer welcome.

[DoctorStrangelove]

yes, focus on bad med schools and completely ignore a lot of good med schools.

I wonder why there are lots of indian doctors in US/UK if the quality is so bad, why doesn't BMA strike them all out. The point is unlike IT professionals , it's very rare for a bad doctor to retain his job if he does serious mistake. The quality control is much stringent in this profession.

Would 30 years do you?

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co....-bogus-doctor/

Apparently he was highly regarded by his patients though they did have a tendency to froth at the mouth.

[vetran]

I agree, but the problem is after "investing in our own people", most of them hoof it off to the US where they can earn more

There should be a rigorously enforced tapering charge of training cost repayments if they emigrate too soon after qualifying!

I have no problem training the worlds doctors so long as we make a profit, there should be a overseas surcharge so we recover the cost plus profit.

[SueEllen]

I agree, but the problem is after "investing in our own people", most of them hoof it off to the US where they can earn more

There should be a rigorously enforced tapering charge of training cost repayments if they emigrate too soon after qualifying!

How would that work in practice?

Lots of doctors go off to work in other countries for periods of time, so leave the tax system. However they come back to the UK as they never planned to leave permanently they were just using working aboard as part as a training opportunity. I actually know some doctors who work in emergency medicine who keep looking like they are going to emigrate but return to the UK for a few years before going off again.

The NHS also allows foreign doctors to work in the UK as part of their training or to finish off their training. They are the ones I know who when they leave, they leave for good.

[OwlHoot]

Interesting that you take that view.

Others could see it as a positive that we're going to invest in our own people to bolster the NHS.

YMMV.

I agree, but the problem is after "investing in our own people", most of them hoof it off to the US where they can earn more

There should be a rigorously enforced tapering charge of training cost repayments if they emigrate too soon after qualifying!

[minestrone]

yes, focus on bad med schools and completely ignore a lot of good med schools.

I wonder why there are lots of indian doctors in US/UK if the quality is so bad, why doesn't BMA strike them all out. The point is unlike IT professionals , it's very rare for a bad doctor to retain his job if he does serious mistake. The quality control is much stringent in this profession.

The total estimated outstanding compensation claims for the NHS is now 83 billion. On average every person in the UK is owed 1 grand for NHS fook ups. That's your stringent quality control right there.

[NotAllThere]

On the contrary...

Oh. It'd be lower, because you're crap? Crapper than Dido? I doubt it.

[Andy2]

Well, you can find my generalisations in UK medical journals, there are hundreds of articles of them...

Corruption in medical education and licensing in India | The BMJ

yes, focus on bad med schools and completely ignore a lot of good med schools.

I wonder why there are lots of indian doctors in US/UK if the quality is so bad, why doesn't BMA strike them all out. The point is unlike IT professionals , it's very rare for a bad doctor to retain his job if he does serious mistake. The quality control is much stringent in this profession.

[minestrone]

I can imagine that if you were in charge of the NHS it'd be even higher.

On the contrary...

[minestrone]

nice generalization there.

Well, you can find my generalisations in UK medical journals, there are hundreds of articles of them...

Corruption in medical education and licensing in India | The BMJ

Cheating, extortion, bribery, plagiarism, guest-student impersonations, corrupt teachers, under-the-table deals with politicians, assassinations, etc, before-during-after medical school examinations, are unfortunately widespread in India. [1][2]

Last year, India's Supreme Court ordered more than 600,000 students to retake the main medical school exams after they found that the question paper had been leaked.

Later on, resulting staffed mainstream healthcare systems in India are riddled with corruption and inefficiency. [4]

Furthermore, said quacks of dubious traditional practices are already legalized as doctors in India. [3]

It is unethical and counterproductive to risk patients' lives, locally and abroad, by dubious graduates of poorly controlled Indian Universities, and quacks who gain equal employment rights.

[vetran]

I can imagine that if you were in charge of the NHS it'd be even higher.

if its valid that would be an improvement.

Clearing out bad apples is a positive thing.

[NotAllThere]

It's something mental like 80% of doctors that get struck off are foreign. 5 times higher than UK trained.

I can imagine that if you were in charge of the NHS it'd be even higher.

[Andy2]

Medical schools in India are a joke, you bribe to get in and you bribe when the exams come round.
.

nice generalization there.

[mattster]

Two, there is an issue with foreign medical staff in the NHS and it's this. The level of English spoken.

This I do agree with.

[courtg9000]

One its Dido Harding. The only job she is really qualified for is car park sweeping and she would probably be crap at that.

Two, there is an issue with foreign medical staff in the NHS and it's this. The level of English spoken. NHS Employers state that the employee or applicant if not from the UK or with English as the mother tongue has to reach or have a level of English that is of IELTS level 7 or above.

This is a high standard of English. The problem is that the NHS trusts seem to ignore this standard and will employ regardless of the standard of English language. I can tell you that some non-english doctors and nurses I have spoken to recently do not have a standard of IELTS level 7 or above and one cardiologist I spoke to claimed a Level 9. This cardiologist could not string a basic sentence together. If this person did get a level 9 it was most definitely fraudulent.

[minestrone]

Harold Shipman style?

Na, but hundreds of alleged victims.