Reply to: Specialise or Generalise

[ChimpMaster]

I've been super niche for just about 10 years now - and for every year of it I've aid "This market is dying, I need to get out" and then something crops up, I seem to earn a bit more money and then all of a sudden I'm 10 years in.

There's no way I'd be sat earning my day rate, outside IR35 as a generalist. But, of course, it depends how you define generalist. I'm in infrastructure, so to me generalist means generic wintel (is that phrase still used) / server type guy who can dabble in everything, but couldn't really consult. On the other hand, you could class many enterprise architects as "generalist", but they can absolutely command top whack.

This is exactly what happened to me, to the point that after 15 years of contracting I found myself with no further work available. But that was 10 years more work than I had initially expected

My mistake was not learning new tech along the way. I put that down to being too busy building a side income and spending much more time with my family. A sacrifice well worth it to me.

[vwdan]

I've been super niche for just about 10 years now - and for every year of it I've aid "This market is dying, I need to get out" and then something crops up, I seem to earn a bit more money and then all of a sudden I'm 10 years in.

There's no way I'd be sat earning my day rate, outside IR35 as a generalist. But, of course, it depends how you define generalist. I'm in infrastructure, so to me generalist means generic wintel (is that phrase still used) / server type guy who can dabble in everything, but couldn't really consult. On the other hand, you could class many enterprise architects as "generalist", but they can absolutely command top whack.

[hobnob]

Really? I think you have no idea what you're talking about. Cloud certs are some of the highest ROI certs you can get right now. Extremely high in demand.

Azure and AWS both have different skill levels (like most certification programs). For Azure, there's Fundamentals, Associate, and Expert. For AWS, there's Foundational, Associate, and Professional. The higher you go, the more valuable the cert.

[jayn200]

Every man and his dog are getting certified in these 2 'specialisms'. Just logging into LinkedIn I see several people every day showing off their new certs in one of these techs. And most of the bods are offshore - which tells me that you won't make a lot of £ working in this area.

Really? I think you have no idea what you're talking about. Cloud certs are some of the highest ROI certs you can get right now. Extremely high in demand. Are there people offshore who get those certs? Sure, there are people offshore who get every cert that isn't localized. Doesn't mean it doesn't have value.

[Whorty]

Every man and his dog are getting certified in these 2 'specialisms'. Just logging into LinkedIn I see several people every day showing off their new certs in one of these techs. And most of the bods are offshore - which tells me that you won't make a lot of £ working in this area.

I'm guessing it's going to be a case of, if you don't have certs in these you're buggered because they become the standard basic requirement. So, better to have than not, but it doesn't put you above the crowd, just into the crowd!

[ChimpMaster]

I would look at getting certified in the likes of AWS or Azure (They both have developer certs, I'm most of the way through the AWS one myself).

Every man and his dog are getting certified in these 2 'specialisms'. Just logging into LinkedIn I see several people every day showing off their new certs in one of these techs. And most of the bods are offshore - which tells me that you won't make a lot of £ working in this area.

[Inception]

I would look at getting certified in the likes of AWS or Azure (They both have developer certs, I'm most of the way through the AWS one myself).

[ladymuck]

We were having a chuckle at work last week as one chap mentioned he had been dealing with IT support and said the person he was talking was based in Buenos Aires and that he didn't realise that the work offshored to India had then been offshored to Argentina

[jamesbrown]

Thank fook for “offshoring”. Ninety-nine percent of my work has come from overseas in recent years.

[Whorty]

I thought the same until it happened to me and 30 other highly qualified and skilled individuals.

While I was working for those big multinationals in the 1990s I frequently walked through factories being closed because the goods were now being offshored or automated. In the noughties and the tens it was offices and warehouses being closed or downsized. Much of the work was consolidated , offshored or automated.

One of my old bosses was financial controller UK business X. He became Financial controller UK (Business A-L) he is now Financial controller Europe the responsibilities of those now below him are Financial controllers for a sub region and a finance administrator (one assumes on less pay) in each country. When he retires what is the betting the job moves countries there are many great sub regional controllers. 30 financial controllers become one at a similar grade.

I have written many tools that cut worker hours spent on a task, frequently the head is released for another task but no one is hired to replace the work that used to be done. Through attrition jobs are leaving.

My children will have to live through it.

Key thing is we need to prepare for it. retraining, creating opportunities etc.

I know you think you are all right Jack, but they may just offshore, automate or consolidate your role or the ones you interact with. The consultants we interacted with eventually came out of India the local ones were let go.

Even if you are alright, if everyone else is out of work will you just throw cake out of your now gated community, because that ended well.

Transactional roles will always be open to being automated (and simplified and standardised). But the knowledge job need people ... well, until AI gets to a stage where humans are no longer required but I'm guessing we'll have bigger issues then.

[vetran]

Just because you can't control your journey, it doesn't mean we all can't. My skill set is in heavy demand, I get calls about real roles frequently.

I chose to get the qualifications and skills I have; I spotted back in my mid 20's that getting CIMA qualified would future proof me. I was in a Finance department looking after their systems. I didn't need to be qualified but I went through nearly 4 years and 16 exams of professional training as it was clearly going to help me going forwards. I later did an MBA. These alone get me in the door for interviews as it proves that whilst I have some good IT skills, I also understand the business processes, issues and key requirements. Technology is only part of the solution, it can enable a solution, but it's not always the only solution.

As I said earlier, many IT experts don't get that, which is why business side SMEs are so important. You'd find it very hard to outsource me, but my teams of technical experts invariably are based all over the world.

But if you think otherwise, good on ya fella

I thought the same until it happened to me and 30 other highly qualified and skilled individuals.

While I was working for those big multinationals in the 1990s I frequently walked through factories being closed because the goods were now being offshored or automated. In the noughties and the tens it was offices and warehouses being closed or downsized. Much of the work was consolidated , offshored or automated.

One of my old bosses was financial controller UK business X. He became Financial controller UK (Business A-L) he is now Financial controller Europe the responsibilities of those now below him are Financial controllers for a sub region and a finance administrator (one assumes on less pay) in each country. When he retires what is the betting the job moves countries there are many great sub regional controllers. 30 financial controllers become one at a similar grade.

I have written many tools that cut worker hours spent on a task, frequently the head is released for another task but no one is hired to replace the work that used to be done. Through attrition jobs are leaving.

My children will have to live through it.

Key thing is we need to prepare for it. retraining, creating opportunities etc.

I know you think you are all right Jack, but they may just offshore, automate or consolidate your role or the ones you interact with. The consultants we interacted with eventually came out of India the local ones were let go.

Even if you are alright, if everyone else is out of work will you just throw cake out of your now gated community, because that ended well.

[Whorty]

It is a journey you assume it is one that you will control. That is not my experience.

Just because you can't control your journey, it doesn't mean we all can't. My skill set is in heavy demand, I get calls about real roles frequently.

I chose to get the qualifications and skills I have; I spotted back in my mid 20's that getting CIMA qualified would future proof me. I was in a Finance department looking after their systems. I didn't need to be qualified but I went through nearly 4 years and 16 exams of professional training as it was clearly going to help me going forwards. I later did an MBA. These alone get me in the door for interviews as it proves that whilst I have some good IT skills, I also understand the business processes, issues and key requirements. Technology is only part of the solution, it can enable a solution, but it's not always the only solution.

As I said earlier, many IT experts don't get that, which is why business side SMEs are so important. You'd find it very hard to outsource me, but my teams of technical experts invariably are based all over the world.

But if you think otherwise, good on ya fella

[vetran]

Re Sage etc, you're talking about the technology, not the people that use the technology. Most of this tech now is going cloud, but the people who do the numbers are in the UK.

Re Concur, the roles that are offshored are the low level data processing ones. These roles are not performed by qualified accountants based in the UK. Actually, with most of the solutions I implement they're not performed by any human anymore as we can automate so much more thus removing the 'low value' roles.

But, what you're talking about are the internal business roles, not the role that I do. I advise the finance teams. I run design workshops. I design and build the finance systems and processes. I consult and advise on best practices.

You're falling into the typical IT trap of thinking technology is all that matters. This is why I'm engaged by companies, to bridge the gap between techies who don't understand the business, and the business who don't understand technology.

HTH If you need me to go over this in more detail I'll send you my day rate so you can raise a PO for my advice.


With the sunny uplands of post Brexit Britain, why would everyone in the UK be out of work?

It is a journey you assume it is one that you will control. That is not my experience.

Offshoring predates Brexit by at least 15 years.

[Whorty]

Funny really I had this discussion about accountants with Roger Rabbit about a decade ago. I predicted centralisation, cherry picking and offshoring using automation.

Lets see

Concur and similar are processed frequently in India.

SAP, SAGE, Xero can also and frequently are run remotely. There is frequently no technical barrier.

Many international countries do the processing offshore in India, the strategic decisions are frequently made in MDCs because that is where the experience is but our overseas competitors are watching & Learning.

Having seen what a mess some auditors have made on some large firms its difficult to see how offshore resources could do a worse job, many Indians have a good sense about corruption & naughty behaviour and would call it out if properly supported.

But even on the remote chance all the accountant jobs stay in the UK, if everyone else is out of work its going to be very unpleasant to live here.

Again pensions if no one has one what are the advisors going to do?

The thing about technology is it changes things we need to be ready.

Agree Vet & Hairdressers are fairly safe if anyone can afford their services.

Re Sage etc, you're talking about the technology, not the people that use the technology. Most of this tech now is going cloud, but the people who do the numbers are in the UK.

Re Concur, the roles that are offshored are the low level data processing ones. These roles are not performed by qualified accountants based in the UK. Actually, with most of the solutions I implement they're not performed by any human anymore as we can automate so much more thus removing the 'low value' roles.

But, what you're talking about are the internal business roles, not the role that I do. I advise the finance teams. I run design workshops. I design and build the finance systems and processes. I consult and advise on best practices.

You're falling into the typical IT trap of thinking technology is all that matters. This is why I'm engaged by companies, to bridge the gap between techies who don't understand the business, and the business who don't understand technology.

HTH If you need me to go over this in more detail I'll send you my day rate so you can raise a PO for my advice.

But even on the remote chance all the accountant jobs stay in the UK, if everyone else is out of work its going to be very unpleasant to live here.

With the sunny uplands of post Brexit Britain, why would everyone in the UK be out of work?

[vetran]

Not true, there are shed loads of jobs that can't be offshored ... or at least, it's very very very difficult. Mrs W for example was a UK pensions expert, registered with the FCA etc. You would need to pass buckets of UK professional exams that take years, do CPD each year and get UK PI insurance to give advice ... not something that is easily (if ever) offshored.

I'm a CIMA quailfied accountant. You can do these exams abroad, but again highly unlikely that my role can be offshored. Not least as accountants are by their nature risk averse and want to see the whites of your eyes before they hire you.

These are just 2 examples. I'm sure others will have many more (Vet is another one that springs to mind, as does hairdresser).

Programmer though ... you're buggered

Funny really I had this discussion about accountants with Roger Rabbit about a decade ago. I predicted centralisation, cherry picking and offshoring using automation.

Lets see

Concur and similar are processed frequently in India.

SAP, SAGE, Xero can also and frequently are run remotely. There is frequently no technical barrier.

Many international countries do the processing offshore in India, the strategic decisions are frequently made in MDCs because that is where the experience is but our overseas competitors are watching & Learning.

Having seen what a mess some auditors have made on some large firms its difficult to see how offshore resources could do a worse job, many Indians have a good sense about corruption & naughty behaviour and would call it out if properly supported.

But even on the remote chance all the accountant jobs stay in the UK, if everyone else is out of work its going to be very unpleasant to live here.

Again pensions if no one has one what are the advisors going to do?

The thing about technology is it changes things we need to be ready.

Agree Vet & Hairdressers are fairly safe if anyone can afford their services.